Railroad Forums 

  • 4/16/2023 Regional Rail Schedule changes

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1619494  by zebrasepta
 
https://www5.septa.org/bulletins/effect ... ect-lines/
NEW REGIONAL RAIL timetables will be in effect Sunday, April 16, 2023, for these select lines: Chestnut Hill East; Chestnut Hill West; Fox Chase; Glenside Combined; Paoli/Thorndale; Trenton; West Trenton; Wilmington/Newark

Septa continues to maintain service to 75% of the pre-pandemic weekday levels.

Major changes are being made to the weekend train schedules on the Trenton and Chestnut Hill East Lines to accommodate AMTRAK state of good repair work on the Northeast Corridor as well as the West Trenton and Chestnut Hill West lines for ongoing SEPTA repair work.
 #1619538  by rcthompson04
 
BuddCar711 wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:35 am What SEPTA needs to do is:

a) reinstate hourly weekend service and
Do they have the crews to do that? Right now it looks like 6 lines have some level of weekend hourly service at all (Airport, Paoli-Thorndale (only to Malvern), Lansdale-Doylestown (only to Lansdale), Wawa, Norristown, and Trenton). Airport is the only truly hourly while all of the rest have a few gaps.
 #1619539  by rcthompson04
 
Train 9591, the 4:25 p.m. Suburban Station departure to Thorndale will operate 9 minutes LATER at all stations.

Train 7537, the 4:42 p.m. Suburban Station departure to Malvern will operate 5 minutes LATER at all stations.

Train 9593, the 5:01 p.m. Suburban Station departure to Thorndale will operate 5 minutes LATER at all stations.
Glad to see they changed the departure times. The prior departure times we pretty difficult for people leaving the office and are closer to the pre-COVID departure times. Still a lot of people missing the Flyer.
 #1619555  by MACTRAXX
 
BuddCar711 wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:35 am What SEPTA needs to do is:

a) reinstate hourly weekend service
BC: The busiest lines should get FULL hourly service restoration on weekends:
Thorndale/Paoli, Lansdale/Doylestown and the Trenton Line have the highest weekend ridership...
Wilmington and West Trenton should follow in terms of weekend numbers when crews become available...
Not every RRD line justifies hourly weekend service at this time...MACTRAXX
 #1619643  by R3 Passenger
 
I have a quick question. Rather than complain about my dissatisfaction with the schedules here on the forum, is there a place other than SEPTA's Online Comment Form where I can give feedback that is not immediately dismissed?

A change in the afternoon train times on the Trenton Line is going to result in having to stay at work for an extra half hour. Additionally, connection times between other rail lines is completely borked on the weekends.

I am getting the feeling that they really are slowly eliminating public transportation altogether.
 #1619687  by zebrasepta
 
R3 Passenger wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:54 am I have a quick question. Rather than complain about my dissatisfaction with the schedules here on the forum, is there a place other than SEPTA's Online Comment Form where I can give feedback that is not immediately dismissed?

A change in the afternoon train times on the Trenton Line is going to result in having to stay at work for an extra half hour. Additionally, connection times between other rail lines is completely borked on the weekends.

I am getting the feeling that they really are slowly eliminating public transportation altogether.
I mean the Lansdale/Doylestown and the Paoli/Thorndale line used to have 30 minute service during the day but it's hourly now. 30 minutes service to Lansdale and 30 minute service to Paoli with the furthest terminus being hourly.
 #1619756  by rcthompson04
 
R3 Passenger wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:54 am I am getting the feeling that they really are slowly eliminating public transportation altogether.
I am not sure. 75% of the prior weekday schedule is in line with the reduced demand. Some lines appear to be filling up more than others. I went in midday a few weeks ago and Malvern and Paoli were full when I tried to find a spot. I had to park at Daylesford. Then I go into Suburban and watch trains on some lines look empty at 5pm.
 #1619782  by ryan92084
 
Non riders have definitely caught on that the parking is free and not being policed so full lots aren't a necessarily an indicator of ridership.
Part of the issue with reducing service because of ridership is losing riders due to the reduced service. People looks at a 1-2hour gap and opt to drive. With many of SEPTA's bread and butter commuters no longer working 5 days (ridership is higher tues-thursday) and therefore no longer having that steady weekly/monthly cash flow they need to be enticing the day trippers more imo.
 #1619796  by MACTRAXX
 
Ryan: Good point - Without parking fees being charged and for that matter enforcement for non-payment
parking lots at certain stations are being used by locals and for access to adjacent businesses in some cases.

Service gaps of two hours on some lines at times can be a decision maker for some making the decision to
either use train service or drive to their destination(s) may it be Center City or other core stations in RRD.

Discretional riders - or as you describe them as "day trippers" should be encouraged in any reasonable way
possible to take advantage of using Regional Rail - incentive fares should be promoted that would be inclusive
for daily cash-paying riders - one day round trips would be a start for each zone (example) instead of penalizing
anyone that does not have or need a SEPTA Key card which the current fare system unfortunately does...
SEPTA RRD needs all of the positive support that it can get from the public at large...MACTRAXX
 #1619818  by JeffK
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:18 am Discretional riders - or as you describe them as "day trippers" should be encouraged in any reasonable way possible to take advantage of using Regional Rail - incentive fares should be promoted that would be inclusive for daily cash-paying riders - one day round trips would be a start for each zone (example) instead of penalizing anyone that does not have or need a SEPTA Key card which the current fare system unfortunately does...

SEPTA RRD needs all of the positive support that it can get from the public at large...MACTRAXX
[CR/LFs edited for readability]
You're spot on about the fare structure STILL being a major disincentive for discretionary riders. I've been raising flags about its punitive aspects for the better part of 20 years, even getting an Op-Ed in the Inquirer at one point - but to no avail.

Steps that I believe should be taken:
  • Return to the long-standing practice of lower midday fares, as opposed to charging peak-hour prices all day. I'm unsure when that started; it may have been part of the 2013 "fare adjustment".
  • Install TVMs at as many outlying stations as possible. Versus systems I've used in other cities SEPTA is almost unique in how difficult it is to pre-pay at such a large number of its stations.
  • Eliminate or modify the obscene on-board surcharge. SEPTA claims it's an "incentive" for customers to buy tickets in advance, but when there's no alternative (see previous) it's punishment, not an incentive.
  • Get moving on full implementation of onboard e-payment, and charge at the standard rate rather than the surcharged rate.
  • Make it easier for out-of-town customers to use the system. Perhaps sell some kind of day fare, family fare, etc. at those TVMs mentioned above. Also work with the city and/or region to offer a wider range of instruments tied to major attractions in the area. E.g. when I've visited Paris and Berlin there were visitor cards that offered both special admission fees for various museums along with transit discounts.
Just musing, somebody's gotta do it.
 #1619860  by ExCon90
 
This might be a good time to make a pitch to Leslie Richards. Recent interviews with the inquirer suggest that she is open to new ideas -- anything to get the ridership back up. There seems to be some in management who are set in their ways and could use a jump start -- the revenue "cliff" SEPTA is facing may help them to focus.
 #1620163  by CRB
 
ryan92084 wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:14 am With many of SEPTA's bread and butter commuters no longer working 5 days (ridership is higher tues-thursday) and therefore no longer having that steady weekly/monthly cash flow they need to be enticing the day trippers more imo.
Maybe SEPTA should look into moving to a 3-tier schedule: Weekday (Tues thru Thurs), Weekend (Sat and Sun), and a tier to be named later (Monday and Friday) with service frequency somewhere in between.
 #1620167  by dcipjr
 
Regarding the parking, it has been wonderful to park at SEPTA stations for free when I have to go into the office.

I believe SEPTA should keep parking free.

If they want to enforce that only fare-paying riders use the parking lots, the obvious move would be to tie parking to the fare reader—enter your spot number, tap to start your fare, and they know that a commuter's car is in that spot.

Since not tapping out eventually charges you a full fare, that'll keep people from tapping their cards and not riding.

It's possible some poor design issues with the Key would prevent them from doing this, of course. After all, many other things have been accidentally made free by the Key's lack of design. (Senior Fares, Child Fares, etc.)
 #1620214  by JeffK
 
dcipjr wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2023 2:42 pm If they want to enforce that only fare-paying riders use the parking lots, the obvious move would be to tie parking to the fare reader—enter your spot number, tap to start your fare, and they know that a commuter's car is in that spot.

Since not tapping out eventually charges you a full fare, that'll keep people from tapping their cards and not riding.
Great idea, but it would be [/lame joke] derailed by SEPTA's opposition to TVMs at outlying stations. Not all discretionary riders have Keys or any other way to prepay before boarding and thus couldn't use the fare reader. Instead of being incentivized they'd get the double whammy of the on-board surcharge and paying for parking :( :(
It's possible some poor design issues with the Key would prevent them from doing this, of course. After all, many other things have been accidentally made free by the Key's lack of design. (Senior Fares, Child Fares, etc.)
I sat in on any number of early meetings about the then-"NPT" project. As early as the late '90s outside consultants, both professional and amateur, were warning that the design was flawed. But SEPTA was so fixated on reproducing its existing revenue streams instead of matching aggregate revenue that they dropped several balls.*

Re Senior Fares - they were so focused on ensuring that users were actually over 65 (needed to get state reimbursement) that they didn't implement any kind of stored-value feature.

There was a similar "oops" with suburban transit zones. Granted it's arguable whether transit zone charges should exist at all, but what I heard from people inside SEPTA was that they originally wanted to capture zones via a tap-off requirement similar to RRD. They were partway through design when it dawned on them it would totally bog down exiting from buses and trolleys.

Plus of course there's still the ongoing issue of transfers. Things have improved for Key holders with implementation of a single free transfer (soon to become two, reportedly). However like the onboard RRD surcharge the elimination of paper transfers does a hit-job on people without Keys. That includes some (many?) of those discretionary riders SEPTA should be trying to attract.

(*) After one such meeting I spent over an hour talking off-line with a couple of SEPTA's planners. They both described an almost palpable case of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) at 1234. The concern was that ANY changes to the existing fare system would make it difficult or impossible to track revenue. That fear's why the initial layout was effectively a digital reproduction of the legacy system that was supposed to work identically, dime-for-dime. And as we all know they found out that re-creating the PRT/PTC/Red Arrow crazy quilt was a fool's task.