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Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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 #1503182  by s4ny
 
I am surprised that there isn't a 3rd track at the White Plains station.

It must create a bit of a scheduling issue. When passengers switch between southbound
express and local trains at White Plains, with only 2 tracks there is no place for a
northbound train.

I do realize that the North White Plains station has 3 tracks and locals often sit there
waiting for the southbound express.
 #1503187  by DutchRailnut
 
not enough property for third track and not enough money for all associated work
 #1503219  by truck6018
 
s4ny wrote: I do realize that the North White Plains station has 3 tracks and locals often sit there
waiting for the southbound express.

Track three is not a through track and is only used to bring trains in and out of the yard. Occasionally trains will be turned there too. Tracks one and two are through tracks.
 #1503221  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Looking back, it would have been nice for the third track to have been extended all the way to North White Plains as that is one of the busiest stretches of the Harlem Line, although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line. I don't think the budget permits for an extension of the third track north of Crestwood. Plus, in order for the third track to be extended, it would probably have a lot of physical obstacles such as not enough space at Scarsdale station-the northbound platform would probably have to be moved. Between Scarsdale and White Plains, the right of way is sort of on an embankment with the Bronx River flowing alongside it. White Plains station is already going through construction changes and the platforms are staying put.
 #1503225  by Backshophoss
 
There was room for a Baggage/Express siding for a freight Elevator structure to bring baggage/express/mail to /from street level.
There was never the room for a third track on the elevated structure thru downtown White Plains
 #1503240  by truck6018
 
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:.... although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line.
The off peak trains that currently turn at Crestwood are only doing that for the duration of the White Plains station project.
 #1503265  by Ridgefielder
 
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Looking back, it would have been nice for the third track to have been extended all the way to North White Plains as that is one of the busiest stretches of the Harlem Line, although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line. I don't think the budget permits for an extension of the third track north of Crestwood. Plus, in order for the third track to be extended, it would probably have a lot of physical obstacles such as not enough space at Scarsdale station-the northbound platform would probably have to be moved. Between Scarsdale and White Plains, the right of way is sort of on an embankment with the Bronx River flowing alongside it. White Plains station is already going through construction changes and the platforms are staying put.
There's a lengthy discussion of this elsewhere in the forum but the bottom line is the NYC future-proofed most of the Lower Harlem back in the 1910's. There's room for a 3rd track on most of the ROW from Crestwood to NWP. The exceptions are the bridges over the Bronx River and the stretch through the Scarsdale station, where the NB platform occupies the space for the third track.
 #1503431  by Union Tpke
 
njt/mnrrbuff wrote:Looking back, it would have been nice for the third track to have been extended all the way to North White Plains as that is one of the busiest stretches of the Harlem Line, although trains do turn at Crestwood and other place down the line. I don't think the budget permits for an extension of the third track north of Crestwood. Plus, in order for the third track to be extended, it would probably have a lot of physical obstacles such as not enough space at Scarsdale station-the northbound platform would probably have to be moved. Between Scarsdale and White Plains, the right of way is sort of on an embankment with the Bronx River flowing alongside it. White Plains station is already going through construction changes and the platforms are staying put.
This project was included in the Twenty-Year Capital Needs Assessment which is a wishlist of project submitted by the different MTA agencies.
http://web.mta.info/mta/capital/pdf/TYN2015-2034.pdf Page 26
These investments include the initial effort to expand the Harlem line between Crestwood and North White Plains and design of a new Woodlawn flyover at the junction of the Harlem and New Haven lines in the Bronx.
 #1503549  by njtmnrrbuff
 
I wonder if it would be possible for the northbound platform at Scarsdale to be moved back to accommodate an extension of the third track? I'm sure that that could happen eventually. If the third track ever gets extended north of Crestwood, at the very least, I would want to see it go as far as just south of White Plains Station. It sounds like even the stretch between White Plains and North White Plains Station, there is a lack of room for a third track.
 #1503555  by DutchRailnut
 
what part of MTA does not own enough property for third track do you guys not understand ?
 #1503623  by hs3730
 
Regarding Scarsdale... tunnel the 3rd track under the existing two. There's room at both ends for a portal. No need for property acquisition.

White Plains would be much more difficult to expand, as whatever 3rd track will need to be a platform track.
 #1503632  by kitchin
 
Tunnels are not so cheap. Palo Alto, CA, has been discussing this as well viewtopic.php?f=60&t=169132" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Building over to create new property, like Chicago and Atlanta did a century ago, is the time-tested way. That's rarely done now outside of, say, Manhattan. Building over goes back to the mud dwelling days!
 #1503636  by DutchRailnut
 
Metro north does not own air rights over any of railroad and tunneling drops you under water level of river next to track.
 #1503639  by kitchin
 
Was New Rochelle station part of some big land deal in the 1990s? About all I know is that Amtrak moved there from Rye about seven years beforehand. Not something Scarsdale would want I'd guess, but maybe White Plains. Seriously spitballing here, but thought it'd be worth mentioning sometimes MN is not the only party with an interest.
 #1503743  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Not going to go through this again but NYC made provisions for 4 tracks all the way to NWP. World War 1 got in the way. Everyone keeps on talking about Scarsdale. The northbound platform was extended all the way out (have pictures) and north of the station, solil from the construction of the BRP was dumped there. So thete is room for a 3rd Track. As far as from WP to NWP that too was designed for 4 tracks. The bridge over Cemetery Rd shows room. The remnants of track lay to the right of track 1 and there is a bumper on the ground north of WP. Track 3 in NWP used to be track 5 which went to below Cemetery Rd. The WP train station had 4 trackways, 2 of which were used, SB local track and NB express track.