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  • General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment
General discussion about locomotives, rolling stock, and equipment

Moderator: John_Perkowski

 #614143  by BobLI
 
Were the 250 ton cranes self propelled? I mean being able to move slowly around a work site or did they need an engine to push them at the site to reposition them?
 #614230  by scharnhorst
 
BobLI wrote:Were the 250 ton cranes self propelled? I mean being able to move slowly around a work site or did they need an engine to push them at the site to reposition them?
They were pushed around the work site by locomotives as some of these big cranes still required water tenders to power there steam boilers. Many of these cranes lasted into the late 70's and 80's before being replaced by cranes set up with hi-rail capabilities. Standard pulling operations for a 250 ton crane required at leased 5 idler cars between the Locomotive and the Crane when in transit from one location to another. The reason for this was to give more brakeing power as these cranes were ofton just as heavy or heavier than a single locomotive.

Smaller 25 ton railroad cranes and Burro cranes are about the only cars that I know that are self propelled and able to move around a job site on there own.
Last edited by scharnhorst on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #614240  by BobLI
 
Thank you. Your knowledge of equipment is amazing!
 #614262  by v8interceptor
 
scharnhorst wrote:
BobLI wrote:Were the 250 ton cranes self propelled? I mean being able to move slowly around a work site or did they need an engine to push them at the site to reposition them?
They were pushed around the work site by locomotives as some of these big canes still required water tendered to power there steam boilers. Many of these cranes lasted into the late 70's and 80's before being replaced by cranes set up with hi-rail capabilities. Standard pulling operations for a 250 ton crane required at leased 5 idler cars between the Locomotive and the Crane when in transit from one location to another. The reason for this was to give more brakeing power as these cranes were oftonley just as heavy or heavier than a single locomotive.

Smaller 25 ton railroad cranes and Burro cranes are about the only cars that I know that are self propelled and able to move around a job site on there own.
Amtrak owned (and may still own) and operated at least one self propelled diesel-electric derrick type crane built by the American Crane company (who built many steam wreckers and ditchers over the years,IINM). It used to be based at the Pawtucket, RI maintainence facilty and was used routinely for MOW work. I don't know the capacity but it was considerably larger than 25 tons....
 #614653  by scharnhorst
 
v8interceptor wrote:
scharnhorst wrote:
BobLI wrote:Were the 250 ton cranes self propelled? I mean being able to move slowly around a work site or did they need an engine to push them at the site to reposition them?
They were pushed around the work site by locomotives as some of these big canes still required water tendered to power there steam boilers. Many of these cranes lasted into the late 70's and 80's before being replaced by cranes set up with hi-rail capabilities. Standard pulling operations for a 250 ton crane required at leased 5 idler cars between the Locomotive and the Crane when in transit from one location to another. The reason for this was to give more brakeing power as these cranes were oftonley just as heavy or heavier than a single locomotive.

Smaller 25 ton railroad cranes and Burro cranes are about the only cars that I know that are self propelled and able to move around a job site on there own.
Amtrak owned (and may still own) and operated at least one self propelled diesel-electric derrick type crane built by the American Crane company (who built many steam wreckers and ditchers over the years,IINM). It used to be based at the Pawtucket, RI maintainence facilty and was used routinely for MOW work. I don't know the capacity but it was considerably larger than 25 tons....
could be 50ton or maybe 100ton cap?? anything bigger than that like the 250ton Big Hooks of yester year were pushed around the site. There is anouther rule in the books that I forgot to add railroad cranes are not to be moved a speeds any faster than 20mph in a train or 15mph while being pushed in transit from one location to anouther. The speeds may vary from railroad to railroad as well I saw this in an old Conrail rule book.
Last edited by scharnhorst on Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #614780  by Nova55
 
Quite a few of the old 100+ ton wreckers were self propelled, but only for small maneuvering. Ill have to get my book out later for more info. Maybe had this feature disabled.
 #619365  by slchub
 
I'll have to look again, but I am almost certain a 250 tonner is out in Carlin, NV right now for the derailment this past weekend at Palisade, NV which took out a bridge and dumped full grain cars.
 #619570  by NV290
 
The traditional "Big Hooks" of the steam era were themselves steam powered. Many live on with Diesel conversions and some were built that way towards the end of the steam era. But these are very impractical in todays railroads for many reasons. More then anything it's the limitaitons you have with a crane that relies on the rails. They are not very useful for wreck clearing at huge derailment sites where the track structure is destroyed. And unless you have two at seperate locations oppisite the site, you are further limited. I know of no company building them in the past 30 years. Nowadays major derailments are cleared using side boom dozers and truck mounted heavy lift cranes made by Kershaw. While they lack the reach of the old rail mounted cranes, the fact they can travel with or without rails makes them far more useful. They can get on site much faster and get anywhere the terrain is passable by a truck.

There are many diesel powered "old school" 200+ ton capacity wreck cranes still in regular use. But every version i have seen has conventional six axle freight trucks with no provision for traction power of any kind. Certainly not by actual locomotive traction motors or direct drive. There may have been a small pony engine underneath to position them, but it certainly could not move them for transport. These are units that are 40+ years old. As for needing several idler cars for added braking, that may be railroad specific depending on the train handling rules, but i have seen them handled with nothing but a single car as a tool car. I know in our train handling rules (CSX) there is no restrictions on them other then they must be hauled with the boom facing aft and they have speed restrictions.

As for self propelled rail cranes, the Burro cranes are the most well known, But American and Ohio both made (and still make) self propelled cranes with capacities exceeding 200 tons. They can travel under their own power at speeds exceeding 30+ MPH and can pull cars with them. Hence the name, Locomotive Crane. Self propulsion is by no means limited to low capacity versions.
 #656409  by BobLI
 
Looking at the picture of the Strasburg RR steam crane 03, it only has 4 wheel trucks under it. I thought all heavy duty cranes had 6 wheel trucks.
Is this crane a 250 ton version? It sure looks like the Athearn 250 ton model.
 #656555  by westr
 
I think it's almost impossible to tell the capacity of a crane just from its appearance. I have an article on Union Pacific cranes with many photos and the largest shown with 4-wheel trucks was a 160-ton Industrial Brownhoist. The Strasburg crane probably isn't any bigger than that. Here is a picture of SPMW 7020, a 160-ton Bucyrus-Erie, preserved operational at Antique Powerland in Brooks, Oregon. Its hard to see because of the fence, but it is on 4-wheel trucks too.
 #725034  by andriabj
 
Good morning,
I am the Director of Administration and Membership of the Steam Locomotive Association #253 in Fort Pierce, FL and we have a 150 ton steam crane that is self propelled. We are restoring a 1924 0-8-0 steam locomotive, ex-FEC #253, 10 of her cars and building a railroad museum. If you are ever in Fort Pierce please come and see us.

Moderator's Note: Duplicate post removed 10-9-09 3:32PM CDT
 #745996  by Rick Rowlands
 
The Industrial Brownhoist 200 and 250 ton derricks were all self propelled. There were gears on the two inside axles which could be engaged or disengaged when needed. I've owned a couple of wrecking derricks over the years and I'm intimately familiar with how these things are put together.
 #746897  by Jtgshu
 
NJT still has at least 2 pretty heavy duty cranes

The CL301 and CL3041

They are 4 axle self propelled cranes, and are used mainly for track work

heres one (I actually brought those cars and crane there that day, with a loco of course :) )
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1532530

and another
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1436988