2026 Soccer World Cup coming to NJ & NY, with many games (including the final) in MetLife Stadium

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:13 am Have M8 trains run through NYP for games at the Meadowlands before?

RW: NO. The service through Penn Station to/from New Haven, CT was provided using NJT equipment...
MNCR/NJT Crews changed at Penn Station and continued on to Trenton as a regular NJT NEC train...
There are posts/discussions in the Metro-North Forum why using M8 equipment was not possible...

Everyone: There are two years and five months for New Jersey Transit and for that matter all transport
agencies in the surrounding area(s) to plan this service around the games to be played at MetLife Stadium...

Remembering the 2014 Super Bowl service problems 10 years ago that NJT is again taking heat for by some
critics-NJT learned from that experience and should have a strategic Meadowlands service plan ready to go...

As example using one ALP45DP to haul 10 (heavy and fully loaded) multilevel cars in diesel mode was a mistake
that was made that should not be repeated in any current or future Meadowlands train service...

For comparison there have been instances in which a rail system ran into serious service problems with victory
parades or celebrations - which are planned out on the spur of the moment with little if any lead time...

Something I remember learning about is that Soccer - or Football as it is known in parts of the world - has
some of the most enthusiastic fans (short for "fanatic") in all of organized sports..."Football Hooliganism"
has sometimes been a serious problem for the sport - and at times been taken to the extreme:
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hoo ... ed_Kingdom
Let's hope that this fan element stays away from World Cup 2026...

The 2026 World Cup can be a good and memorable experience for the multitude of fans planning to attend...
NJT can (and hopefully will) put its best "foot" forward...MACTRAXX

lensovet wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:21 pm The platforms at Secaucus max out at 10 cars.

Not sure what having 2 locomotives gets you, cab cars don't have that much fewer seats to make that worthwhile.

It was my understanding that going to 12 cars required two motors, my proposal had nothing to do with capacity of cab cars. Not sure if the issue is sheer power or HEP. If sheer power probably not all that much of an issue on such a short, flat, trip.

Nothing new to report here, but one paragraph I find interesting: Politico

(My emphasis)

...
So far, the two agencies likeliest to get fans back and forth between Manhattan and New Jersey — the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and NJ Transit — are still in the earliest stages of planning for the World Cup, though they have worked together in the past on major events. The Port Authority will work with local, state and federal officials on plans and is likely to set up some kind of special group to handle the planning. Amtrak also runs trains in and out of Manhattan.
...

Would or could Amtrak add a stop at Secaucus to accommodate intercity fans?

JS - YES. Amtrak making an extra stop at the upper level of Secaucus Junction makes perfect sense...
The extra track space and platforms are already there...I expect SJ to be a VERY busy place during
World Cup 2026 going to and from the all-important Hoboken-Meadowlands shuttle trains...MACTRAXX

Everyone - On further thought:

Does anyone have a track map of the Meadowlands Branch along with mileages?

Has NJT proposed or made provisions for any future electrification of this route?

Would having the option of using electric rail equipment in Meadowlands service
be worth the cost of a project that could be completed before either the 2025 NFL
season (example of a possible timeline) or the 2026 World Cup tournament?
MACTRAXX

I suspect there will be more fans staying in New Jersey than Manhattan.

The only reason for that to happen would be if New York actually cracks down on AirBnB. I'm fairly certain NJ doesn't have the hotel inventory to accommodate that. Travelers from outside the US will see the stadium name as New York New Jersey and not understand and book rooms in New York. Travelers from outside the US will not be coming in for just one day/one game and will want to spend time in NYC and have no idea where to look in NJ. People close enough will drive/take the train. People not close enough will not understand the geography and either be afraid of Newark or see the travel time/distance from NYC as more convenient than wherever the hotel inventory is outside of the immediate Meadowlands vicinity and go to NYC.

Pure Foamer Fantasy: Would this be an opportunity to test through running by cutting back on some regular service and running through shuttles using NJT equipment between Stamford and EWR and Jamaica and EWR?

andegold wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:15 am Pure Foamer Fantasy: Would this be an opportunity to test through running by cutting back on some regular service and running through shuttles using NJT equipment between Stamford and EWR and Jamaica and EWR?

AG: YES and NO

1-YES - Running through TRENTON-NEW HAVEN trains have already been operated in the Train to the Game
Service weekends on NFL game dates which is a service partnership between NJT and MNCR that could work
well for the World Cup 2026 Tournament...As previously mentioned these trains used NJT equipment with a
crew change at Penn Station New York in each direction...

2-NO - (or highly unlikely) is any LIRR DM30 units operating through the North/Hudson River tunnels to NJ...
That service would depend on the condition of the seldom-used third rails through both tubes that ends at
the Tonnelle Avenue overpass adjacent to Bergen Hill along with the switchover to/from diesel and electric...

LIRR dual-mode trains change power modes soon after leaving the East River Tunnels eastbound...
Leaving Jamaica and then clearing the Jay Interlocking plant (just west of Jamaica) westbound...

Going eastbound there is the redundancy of the continuous third rail electric mode availability...
Westbound the changeover is accomplished in time to be certain that the DM30 units are in E mode
well in advance of reaching the East River Tunnels...All Penn Station dual-mode trains use TWO units...

The problem with using the LIRR DM30 units to New Jersey is that the diesel would have to be started inside
the tunnel before the units reach the abrupt end of third rail going upgrade westbound...
If the diesel fails to start there will be a stalled train on a very crucial track segment...

Eastbound the units would have to wait until both are in contact with the third rail inside the tunnel...
If the diesel/electric changeover does not go properly that will create problems with diesel exhaust...

This is NOT any "Foamer Fantasy"...This is a reality that has to be looked at far in advance planning
for World Cup 2026 train service - what the most practical service options are...MACTRAXX

andegold wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:12 am The only reason for that to happen would be if New York actually cracks down on AirBnB. I'm fairly certain NJ doesn't have the hotel inventory to accommodate that. Travelers from outside the US will see the stadium name as New York New Jersey and not understand and book rooms in New York. Travelers from outside the US will not be coming in for just one day/one game and will want to spend time in NYC and have no idea where to look in NJ.

I don't think travelers who can afford to come for the semi-finals and finals are quite that uneducated.

MACTRAXX - why would you even consider using LIRR equipment? Just because the runs would be serving that territory? NJT has ALP-45s perfectly suited for operating on both sides of PSNY.

Question: What is the platform length at the meadowlands?
The MNRR Hell Gate service will not start in time for these games/
With that in mind is it possible for Amtrak to provide thru service from say Bridgeport - Meadowlands? If some Airo train sets are operational then that might be ideal equipment to operate the service. If not maybe Amtrak could operate the combined ACS-64 / P-42 combination that is often used at late night for CAT maintenance.

andegold wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:31 pm MACTRAXX - why would you even consider using LIRR equipment? Just because the runs would be serving that territory? NJT has ALP-45s perfectly suited for operating on both sides of PSNY.

eh? is there actually sufficient overhead wire in Queens to use those trains?

Please note that NJT only switches modes when stopped at a station and while the capability technically exists, on the fly changes are not done. This would be pretty much the worst time to try them.

I'm also hard-pressed to understand why a direct train from Jamaica is needed. No one is going to be coming from the airport to go directly to a game.

west point wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:58 pm Question: What is the platform length at the meadowlands?
The MNRR Hell Gate service will not start in time for these games/
With that in mind is it possible for Amtrak to provide thru service from say Bridgeport - Meadowlands? If some Airo train sets are operational then that might be ideal equipment to operate the service. If not maybe Amtrak could operate the combined ACS-64 / P-42 combination that is often used at late night for CAT maintenance.

As answered previously – platforms are long enough to hold a 10-car train.

The longest Airo sets will be 8 cars including a cafe car and business car. Makes zero sense to run these services to the Meadowlands where you want crush capacity instead of lost space to amenities that no one needs for a 10-minute ride.

lensovet wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:07 am

andegold wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:31 pm MACTRAXX - why would you even consider using LIRR equipment? Just because the runs would be serving that territory? NJT has ALP-45s perfectly suited for operating on both sides of PSNY.

eh? is there actually sufficient overhead wire in Queens to use those trains?

Please note that NJT only switches modes when stopped at a station and while the capability technically exists, on the fly changes are not done. This would be pretty much the worst time to try them.

I'm also hard-pressed to understand why a direct train from Jamaica is needed. No one is going to be coming from the airport to go directly to a game.

AG-I replied about LIRR dual-mode equipment running into NJ because you brought this subject up...
I was pointing out what the potential problems would be in train operations to/from Secaucus Junction...

PB - YES - An ALP45DP motor would encounter this possible problem to/from the LIRR and east:
The train would have to make a brief stop someplace in Harold Interlocking (the physical boundary
between Amtrak and the LIRR) where overhead catenary begins/ends (marked W/ "AC MOTOR STOP" signs)
to raise/lower the pantograph and change modes before reaching or after leaving the East River Tunnels...
This track segment with overhead wire is roughly 1 1/2 miles long adjacent to Sunnyside Yard...

I was uncertain if NJT changes modes on ALP45DP locomotives while they were in motion -
Raising/lowering pantographs while a train is stopped is the safest way...

The LIRR used to station "protect" locomotives at HAROLD for weekday rush hours which were one (or two)
SW1001 diesels with MU couplers along with a control stand to "rescue" trains to or from Penn Station and
the East River Tunnels. There have been instances of these units being used for stalled Amtrak or NJT
trains and they have gone into the North/Hudson River tunnels on rare occasions...

The LIRR is purchasing two specially-designed diesel locomotives for "protect" service specifically for
the Grand Central Branch (ESA) and East River Tunnels to be stationed in/around Harold Interlocking.
If they are available at some point before World Cup 2026 they can help safeguard ALP45DP-led trains
to and from the LIRR in a joint service plan...

More further thoughts - A designated single island platform at Penn Station New York could be set aside
for across-the-platform transfers between NJT and the LIRR during significant Meadowlands events:
I am thinking Tracks 13-14 and Tracks 15-16 which are used by both NJT and LIRR trains...The scheduling
and through ticketing (which is already offered from LIRR points to the Meadowlands) would have to be
further worked out to offer a seamless and simple transfer at Penn Station for World Cup 2026 service...
This may be the simplest and least expensive service option for both carriers...MACTRAXX