1900s-1930s MU Fleet

I know the NH bought a total of 221 MUs in 3 different variations:
a) Open-ended clerestory roof
b) Closed-ended clerestory roof
c) Closed-ended flat-rounded roof
(all built by Osgood Bradley?) between 1909 and 1931(?) as stated in a few of my books, but they don't go into exactly when and of how much each version was built. Around which time were these 3 (correct me if I'm missing anything) groups were built?

Also as a side question, since the original plans for the White Plains branch of the NYW&B included construction of a connection between the branch and the mainline at Mount Vernon was there ever any intention of using the NH's MUs for White Plains-GCT service (had it materialized) or were the Stillwells capable of being outfitted with 3rd rail shoes and the appropriate apparatus for dual-mode power? I have a feeling 1 if not 2 of those answers might lie in another one of my books, but I figured at least a couple of you guys here would have even more info than even the books might!

I am talking MU motor cars (4000 series):
4020 - 4027 had open platforms and were built in 1909 and 1912 (4020 - 4023 in 1909, others in 1912)
4028 - 4040 had railroad roofs, 2 and 2 plush seats and were built in 1914
4041 - 4047 built in 1922, railroad roofs, 2 and 2 plush seats
4048 built in 1923, railroad roof, plush seats
4049 -4051 built in 1925
4052 - 4053 built in 1914 plush seats
4054 - 4055 built in 1916 plush seats
From 4028 on the cars had enclosed vestibules and the above cars had 2 and 2 plush type seats and were known as the "plush cars"
4070 - 4090 built in 1926 with 3 and 2 seating, arch roofs, friction bearings like the others before them, 4070 -4109 were known as the "large class"
4091 - 4094 built in 1927 with 3 and 2 seating, arch roofs, friction bearings
4095 - 4097 built in 1930 with 3 and 2 seating, arch roofs, roller bearings
4098 - 4109 built in 1931 with 3 and 2 seating, arch roofs, roller bearings
There were also trailers and combos (combos were also trailers), too much typing to go in to detail. The plush and the large
class cars could MU and I suspect the open platform cars could also MU with the newer cars.
The only connection at Columbus Avenue with the Westchester and the New Haven existed during construction of the Westchester and it was not kept after the construction period ended. I don't think the Stillwells could have been operated in to Grand Central Terminal, I don't think the trucks would have accomodated third rail equipment and the cars themselves were AC only. One reason the New Haven pushed for the Westchester was to get some of the commuter operations out of Grand Central Terminal and running the Westchester trains to Grand Central Terminal would have defeated this purpose.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:4070 - 4090 built in 1926 with 3 and 2 seating, arch roofs, friction bearings like the others before them, 4070 -4109 were known as the "large class"

Noel- I had no idea 3-2 seating dated back that far. Guess I thought it was an "innovation" from the 1960's.

Huh that's interesting that the late 1910s-early 1930s cars were at times built only in pairs every couple of years or so and at most not in large groups (compared to even 1950s/60s MU orders for the NH/NYC/LIRR, etc.). I guess the railroad really had them made to order when they really needed them.

BTW were all the MU designs courtesy of Osgood-Bradley or the NH?

Ridgefielder wrote:

Noel Weaver wrote:4070 - 4090 built in 1926 with 3 and 2 seating, arch roofs, friction bearings like the others before them, 4070 -4109 were known as the "large class"

Noel- I had no idea 3-2 seating dated back that far. Guess I thought it was an "innovation" from the 1960's.

Fascinating indeed! Did the 2-2 seats ever get replaced with 3-2s and were the 2-2s any bigger in size per avg. passenger or did they simply make for a wider aisle?

A couple of points here;
The large class MU's were built with 3 and 2 seating.
The motors and trailers had normal couplers of the period, the motor cars and trailers were not permantly coupled but were switched out on a regular basis. Normally one motor for every two trailers but we had a couple of trains that had just two motors with six trailers, the motors in this case were the newest of the old.
Those old MU's were wonderful old cars, great to operate and ran reasonably trouble free for many, many years. In the later years of the New Haven the McGinnis/Alpert bunch let maintenance go downhill especially with the closing of Van Nest when all MU maintenance was moved to Stamford. I ran plenty of miles on these cars and they were faithful servents for the commuting and traveling public for a long time. They were supposed to be limited to 60 MPH but I had some rides on them that were a bit faster than that. They had a wonderful brake on them too, you did not slip/slide past stations very much on bad rail back in those days.
Noel Weaver

PS I think the practice of 3 and 2 seating probably began on the Long Island way back when.

Cars 4060,61,62,63,were AC propulsion only.They were used exclusively for Harlem River Branch service.With the NH discontinuing the branch local service,the cars were loaned to the NYWB,even fitted with NYWB metal destination signs.When the Westchester discontinued service,the cars went back to the New Haven for commuter service and were retrofitted for AC/DC operation. The NYWB Stillwell cars had archbar style trucks and were not suited for 3rd rail pick up.Even with the upgrade on the motor trucks to a newer style side frame,it was still unsatisfactory for 3rd rail operation.Only J.P.Morgan knew why a connection was built at Columbus Avenue between the two companies.What ever future plans he had intended for this connection,never came to fruition,he took his ideas to his grave in 1913.Also,while the NYWB was in limbo awaiting it's ultimate fate of total destruction,foresight and money were not available to utilize this graded 2 track connection complete with catenary bases.

Do any pictures exist of the New Haven cars operating on the NYW&B?

pbass wrote:The NYWB Stillwell cars had archbar style trucks and were not suited for 3rd rail pick up.Even with the upgrade on the motor trucks to a newer style side frame,it was still unsatisfactory for 3rd rail operation.

The Stillwells all wound up as de-motored coaches in Boston commuter service, correct?

Also- am I right in thinking a decent part of the Boston-Westchester's fleet was actually held on long-term lease from the New Haven?

I can't remember where I saw the few photographs of the NH cars on the NYWB,I believe there is a photo in Roger Arcara's last & final book-Westchester's Forgotten Railway,published in 1985,of a car at Van Nest with the destination sign frames showing through the windows.All the Westchester's cars had motors and all electrical equipment removed at Van Nest shops prior to shipment to Readville,Mass. for conversion to steam heated coaches[those cars owned by the NH].The 42 remaining serviceable Westchester owned cars-3 were derelict and at least one sat at Van Nest for the duration of WW2[no scrapping of equipment was allowed by any railroad or transit agency unless authorized by the Federal government].When those 42 cars were purchased by the U.S.Government,they too were demotored and electric apparatus removed presumably by Van Nest.It is not to my knowing how long the lease of the NH owned cars were valid for,most likely until the lease expired or the Westchester paid off the lease,which did not happen.

The Stillwells all wound up as de-motored coaches in Boston commuter service, correct?

Correct. They were converted to steam coaches in 1938 and at least some of them lasted in Boston until the NH's service cuts and RDC acquisitions of the early 1950s made them superfluous.