#14 Orange Line Cars 1400-1551 (From Red/Orange Procurement discussion)

There are a number of websites/apps where you can track the location and number of new MBTA trains in service at any particular moment (and some give you the capability of tracking all trains whether new or not). Google "MBTA Train Tracker" or something like that.

At this writing there are three trains of Type 9s (6 cars), 8 trains of Orange Line 1400s (48 cars), and 1 train of Red Line 1900s (6 cars) in revenue service.

The site is - https://traintracker.transitmatters.org/

Yup, but it's not "the" site... it's just one of them. There are also Pantograph, TransSee, Live MBTA Subway Mapping by Stefan, etc. etc. etc. Google is your friend. I endorse none over any other - all have their pluses and minuses.

Just download the app "Transit" on your phone. It will look up the schedules of all the T transit around you using location. It's a godsend for those of us out in rubber-wheeled country.

Just out of curiosity, how many new red and orange line trains are on Mbta property at the moment? I noticed that the Mbta has been getting 2-4 new orange line cars per month, but the red line has been stuck with 10 cars in service for at least a year now. Shouldn’t they be focusing on getting new red line cars since they now have enough orange line cars to run full service again when the time comes of getting enough staff to dispatch and run the trains.

Commuterrail1050 wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 7:53 am Just out of curiosity, how many new red and orange line trains are on Mbta property at the moment?

Here is the place to look for inventory information:

http://roster.transithistory.org/

JoeD

"" Shouldn’t they be focusing on getting new red line cars since they now have enough orange line cars ... ""

Despite the similarities of the Red Line and Orange Line cars, it is still easier to produce all of one batch before going on to the other batch. Some Red Line cars were made early so bugs unique to that batch could be found and worked out early. Then on to finishing one batch (here, the Orange Line cars) next.

I suppose although not sure that the T judged that breakdowns and car shortage on the Orange Line would have more severe had the Red Line cars been done first, compared with breakdowns and car shortages on the Red Line today.

Especially given that the Red Line batch is so much larger, had those been done first, the delay before any Orange Line cars (beyond the first ten) showed up would be much longer.

Plus the Red Line fleet is aluminum and stainless steel bodies compared to steel bodies of the 01200s, which have been noted to be in worse condition.

Poor quality continues:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/06/13 ... s-to-mbta/

I think we are getting into "tough shit" time, CRRC will at some point say take them or leave them. Let's be honest with a foreign country, not necessarily friendly to the USA, company backed somewhat by a government they can walk away. Of course the MBTA/Commonwealth will try to recoup losses, to no avail and the riding public will be left holding the bag. CRRC will say go ahead and kick us out and will walk away from all US contracts, CTA and SEPTA. And as an added bonus whatever chips they manufacture for a consumer electronic device we have on our person, car and so on.

Maybe its time to somehow take MBTA crews and start assembling whatever shells exist and make lemonade out of the lemon of a deal. Some will say COVID has diminished the workforce but I still think this is where we would have ended up anyway.

Is the problem with the new Red/Orange Line cars with the 49% foreign content (value added) or with the 51% U.S. content?

Hmmmm, Could the U.S. seize debts it owes to countries whose government owned entities failed to complete contracts with the U.S.? Then seek out alternative suppliers to complete the contract and whatever it cost for the substitute supplier is docked from the debt owed the subject country? You could say that the debt is disputed as opposed to (selectively) defaulted on.

I doubt the issues with this contract have anything to do with the origin of the parts. In fact, they have approximately 70% US content with the rest originating mostly from Europe. My sense is that these issues are all related to assembly at the Springfield plant. Here's an analogy of what I think is happening:

Your company needs 100 new computers with the stipulation that they be assembled inside your office. You receive proposals from Dell, HP, Lenovo, and some unknown XYZ company. XYZ company proposes the lowest price with the best parts from reputable brands (Intel, Asus, Corsair, etc.), but has never assembled a PC in your office before nor do they have a presence in your country. Fast forward a few months later and they've hired and trained a few assemblers and have started assembling your computers with parts coming in from all around the US. When these computers are submitted to you for inspection, you find that many of them have disconnected power supply cables, missing screws, memory modules arranged incorrectly, and all sorts of other assembly quality issues. You complain to the company, they say they're rectifying these issues, and you continue to find things that are wrong with every completed unit, delaying your project by months.

One saving grace to the scenario above is that these parts are all standardized, and anyone with computer assembly experience can finish the job. I'm not sure how standardized railcar parts or designs are, so in the event that the T terminates the contract, I'd be interested in seeing if they can find another company to assemble them.

I would imagine that since every order is "made-to-order" with a custom design every time, outside of the propulsion system and maybe some really basic level components like screws and wires, the parts are probably not standard. And if they have any sort of commonality, it would probably be with other CRRC products made in the US.

Disney Guy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2023 10:16 am Is the problem with the new Red/Orange Line cars with the 49% foreign content (value added) or with the 51% U.S. content?

Hmmmm, Could the U.S. seize debts it owes to countries whose government owned entities failed to complete contracts with the U.S.? Then seek out alternative suppliers to complete the contract and whatever it cost for the substitute supplier is docked from the debt owed the subject country? You could say that the debt is disputed as opposed to (selectively) defaulted on.

The US Government has nothing invested in this contract. Massachusetts stipulated that the cars be "Made in MA", not "Made in USA", which meant that Massachusetts forewent any federal monies for these cars. MA tried to build a MA-based rail manufacturing capability, and this was one of the possible results.

Well I guess we are getting to milestone time. I saw 1500/01 out and about testing on Sunday (11/19/2023). They still haven't received the 100 due some gaps, 1496/97 and 1498/99, but they are almost there.