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  • 11/28/43 - LUDLOW FALLS, OHIO

  • Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.
Discussion relating to the NYC and subsidiaries, up to 1968. Visit the NYCS Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #1451821  by shlustig
 
Ludlow Falls was a siding point on the Big Four (nee- P&E) line between Indianapolis and Springfield, Ohio. The line was operated under timetable / train order / no block rules (dark territory). Average traffic was 1 round-trip passenger and 2 RT's through freight plus an occasional extra.

On this date, the train dispatcher put out orders for eastbound #94 to meet westbound #97 at Ludlow Falls. Since eastward trains were superior by direction and because the grade for westward trains was fairly steep, the dispatcher had the order provide for #94 to take siding for the meet.

#97 received the correctly worded order, but the order received by #94 did not contain the information for that train to take siding for the meet. This resulted in an overlap of authority on the main track between the siding switches, and that is where the head-on collision occurred. There was 1 fatality, 2 injuries, 2 locomotives and tenders derailed along with 12 cars. The track at that point was in the middle of a curve which severely limited the sight distance for the crews.
 #1451923  by Statkowski
 
shlustig wrote:The line was operated under timetable / train order / no block rules (dark territory).
By "dark territory" you mean that it was not equipped for Automatic Block Signals. The line in question had block rules, Manual Block rules, just not Automatic Block rules.
 #1451944  by Statkowski
 
Okay, they fell into the same "dark territory" trap - no ABS signals = no rules.

But, we both know there were rules governing operation in a manual block signal system.
 #1451989  by ExCon90
 
AFAIK when the ICC referred to a block system it meant either manual or automatic. "No block system in use" meant T&TO, strictly a time-interval method of train separation in which the presence of a train was not detected or indicated in any manner other than by any signals displayed, or fusees thrown off, by a particular train. The rules normally required a train to wait a certain number of minutes after the departure of a preceding train, but once on the move they had no way of knowing whether the preceding movement was still moving, which is why the crew of a delayed train was required to throw off fusees and if stopped to flag a good distance back.
 #1452024  by Statkowski
 
I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree, but whether Centralized Traffic Control, Automatic Permissive Block, Automatic Block, Controlled Manual Block or just plain-Jane Manual Block, it's still some sort of block system. TT&TO was simply a means of controlling the operations, whatever they were.

In this particular instance the rules governing the block system weren't followed since one of the affected trains didn't get a correct train order.

But, we're beating a dead horse here.

On a side note, that particular P&E line had no relation to the former P&E line where I now live, other than both being or becoming part of the New York Central. (Peoria & Eastern and Pittsburg & Eastern)
 #1466427  by mel
 
I have a June 1944 TT and at that time the P&E was under Manual Block rules . They may or may not have been in effect when the head on happened . I remember when I was 17 yrs. old that they had another head on at Ludlow falls because I drove my 1928 ford model A to see the damage . That date would have been in 1947 . When NYC took over the east end of the P&E it went to the P&E Division . If it was non- block then it would have been a bad train order . MEL