New London - Worcester Passenger Service

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Jeff Smith
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by Jeff Smith » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:47 am

I'm not sure about South Station, but I don't think NYP would have slots for additional thru trains in any case. And if slots do free up, there are already plenty of candidates for those slots in front of the line. Not to mention restrictions on the NEC draw bridges as to number of trains (but let's not open up that can of worms).

Technically, though, you could overcome the diesel-electric issue with the new NJT ALP-45 DP.

But for now, connecting service would work fine. And that could be in the form of something similar as the Danbury or Waterbury branches of MNRR/CDOT. Mini-bombs with Shoreliner coaches.
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jbvb
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by jbvb » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:24 pm

This IMO excessive, unrealistic focus on "one-seat rides" is an off-the-books cost of sloppy operations, unreliable equipment, poor transfer station facilities and our idiotic insistence that reservation != seat assignment. A 10-minute connection at New London or Worcester would be perfectly acceptable if both trains had European or Japanese schedule-keeping, you could do it under a roof and, should you care to make a reservation, you knew which car and seat to go to in the connecting train.

The EGE
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by The EGE » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:43 pm

The casinos, being the only wealthy businesses in the area with the exception of Pfizer and EB, have an enormous amount of power when they decide they want something. If Foxwoods decided they wanted to stop using town and state roads for their very popular buses, the necessary permits for a 5-mile rail spur would skid across some greased palms.

(Full disclosure: I live (when at home) in Ledyard, the town from which the reservation was carved and on whose roads the casino traffic rolls.)

markhb
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by markhb » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:08 pm

jbvb wrote:This IMO excessive, unrealistic focus on "one-seat rides" is an off-the-books cost of sloppy operations, unreliable equipment, poor transfer station facilities and our idiotic insistence that reservation != seat assignment. A 10-minute connection at New London or Worcester would be perfectly acceptable if both trains had European or Japanese schedule-keeping, you could do it under a roof and, should you care to make a reservation, you knew which car and seat to go to in the connecting train.
I assume this was directed at my earlier comment. I didn't say anything about "one-seat rides;" I mentioned the proposed NL-Worcester service acting in conjunction with a Maine-based train in a way that would provide a 2-seat ride from Portland to NYP. My reasoning is simple: I would like to see a POR-NYP routing that doesn't require the crosstown connection in Boston, as the cab fare between the two stations can easily match the Downeaster rate POR-BON, and hauling luggage on the T is a giant pain. However, given existing connections between Portland and New York (a single-transfer trip via Greyhound and BOS, or a (under $90) one-way nonstop flight PWM-JFK on JetBlue that gets you there in 1:20 from an airport that doesn't require 2 hours to get through security), I don't think that a 3-seat trip with connections in Worcester and, an hour later, in New London, would be viewed as a desirable choice by many people, regardless of the smoothness of the connections themselves.
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161pw165
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by 161pw165 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:50 am

boatsmate wrote:Direct Service to and from New york and Beyond would be great, how ever you face the same problem they face with restoring service to Cape cod,(amtrak) that you would have to electrify the entire line to worcester inoder to do this. same as the cape. the only way it would work is to trade engines in NH to Desiel, and run them the rest of the way. (like the old days before wire) the only other way (other than cross platform transfer which is what they are looking for) would be to put an engine terminal in NL and change engines for the remainder of the trip. to cost prohibitive thats why they did away with it in NH. Cross paltform transfers work well in NH and worked well in Providence when the Cape Codder ran. I think for a start up its the way to go.

As for frieght trains along the line there are only 4 NR2 and NR3, NRWO and WONR the last 2 run at night the others could run around the train schedules like they do on the NEC. I think a stop at or near the Casinos might help also, exspecialy coming up form NL where the ferries come in from NY and could meet the train (they currently use buses to the casinos from the ferry port)


Capt Bill
Please correct me, but I don't recall the Cape Codder using a cross-platform transfer at Providence. I'm pretty sure I rode that train NYP-PVD with the regular electric-to-diesel power change in New Haven.

Noel Weaver
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by Noel Weaver » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:33 pm

A Portland - New York trip by train through Worcester could and should be absolutely seamless. Stop for passengers and go period. With Amtrak providing the crews they would not even need to change crews there. It is a straightaway move and they do not cross CSX at grade either so no interference from CSX here. Simple enough to operate Portland - New Haven with a diesel and change to electric at New Haven just like the Vermonter and one Springfield job do now. If you are talking just a shuttle between Worcester and New London I suppose that would work OK but a through train from Portland should continue as a through train to New York and maybe Washington.
With regard to the Cape Codder, the last year it ran it required a cross platform transfer at Providence and that was one reason that the ridership on these trains went downhill fast. A Cape Cod train could be very successful out of New York provided the schedules resembled the schedules in effect for many years on the New Haven with through service in the season and a weekend Budd Car between Hyannis and Providence year round. There is enough population on Cape Cod to justfy better service today than what was provided in 1964 which was the last year of NHRR passenger trains to Hyannis.
Noel Weaver

boatsmate
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by boatsmate » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:26 pm

I thought Noel it was the last 2 years, what they would do is dead head a train set to Prov. meet the NYP to BOS train then once it cleared they would head to Hyannis, tie down the train in Hyannis till Sonuday then reverese to Prov. then dead head to Bos. 2 dead heads is what killed it to. that kind of cost didn't help


Capt Bill

Noel Weaver
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by Noel Weaver » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:45 am

Maybe it was the last two years, I would have to dig for that and right now is not the time to do that.
Noel Weaver

MickD
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by MickD » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:28 am

There was a cross platform transfer at Providence for
The Cape I had to do it even before that last year..

161pw165
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by 161pw165 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:21 am

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I wasn't aware of that change during the final 2 years of the service. Sorry for going off-topic.....

Noel Weaver
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by Noel Weaver » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:08 pm

I was finally able to locate my Amtrak local timetables for Cape Cod service:
Summer, 1995 (June 16 through September 10) One train from New York to Hyannis Friday only and one train from Hyannis to New York on Sunday only
Summer, 1996 (June 28 through September 29) One train from Boston to Hyannis Friday only with a connection at Providence from New York and one train Sunday only from Hyannis to Boston with a connection at Providence to New York.
The schedule in effect in 1996 made absolutely no sense because the P & B Bus out of Hyannis ran frequent service and did the trip in about half of the time that it took Amtrak and cost much less as well. The New York passengers could also get through bus service between New York and Hyannis so much of the advantage of riding the train on this route vanished in 1996.
I don't think here was any Amtrak service to Cape Cod after the summer of 1996.
Noel Weaver

MickD
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by MickD » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:27 pm

No, '96 was it..
I used it when it was a direct NYP-Hyannis on Sat.
and it was always pretty well patronized the times
I did. It used to leave NY at around 10:30 AM or so
and we'd be in Hyannis at around 4:30.Loved it.

Ridgefielder
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by Ridgefielder » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:40 pm

jbvb wrote:This IMO excessive, unrealistic focus on "one-seat rides" is an off-the-books cost of sloppy operations, unreliable equipment, poor transfer station facilities and our idiotic insistence that reservation != seat assignment. A 10-minute connection at New London or Worcester would be perfectly acceptable if both trains had European or Japanese schedule-keeping, you could do it under a roof and, should you care to make a reservation, you knew which car and seat to go to in the connecting train.
If we're just talking about a New London-Worcester shuttle, I don't see why a 10 minute connection at NL isn't possible today. Connection times for the Springfield shuttles at New Haven are on average a little over 10 minutes, while MNR operates on a 5 minute connection to the Danbury Branch at South Norwalk.

One question- the way the station trackage is set up at New London, would an actual "across-the-platform" transfer be possible, though? I thought the track closest to the river was the NECR interchange and had no connection to the main again once past the station. If this is true, is there anywhere on the New London side of the Thames to stash a train out of the way of traffic until it's time to turn for Worcester?

The EGE
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by The EGE » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:23 pm

Amtrak's master plan aims for a yard somewhere in the New London / Waterford area.

No connection currently for the NECR main, you are correct. But, should SLE get full NLC service or expand to Mystic (we're talking 15 years down the line) I could see it being used for passenger boarding with a new interlocking.

jonnhrr
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Re: New London - Worcester Passenger Service

Post by jonnhrr » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:23 pm

I was wondering about the possibility of running the train Worcester - New London - New Haven. It solves the problem of where to park the equipment between runs, and provides more choices for patrons of transferring to Metro North for local stops or GCT, or Amtrak for NYP and points South.

Jon
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