MOM Rail Service

[GSC]

The Fort Dix - Lakehurst - Earle Pier rapid military deployment "connection" has been discussed for some time now, mostly unpublicized meetings that few of the general public know about. Last I heard, most of the talk has been about upgrading the former Southern north (east) to the Earle switch, so far little has been done except talk.

If nothing else, the line between Lakehurst / Manchester to Farmingdale (the switch at "station" CP Earle, which is at Collingwood) would be upgraded to higher speed.

Someday.

[WaitinginSJ]

Very Dumb question, why not extend MOM to Winslow Junction, allowing for more direct service to A.C. and Philly from North Jersey?

[firthorfifth06]

This has been answered in several threads. The reason is time to travel, its an inconvenience due to various speed restrictions. The fast service NJT will use to get to philly/AC is the ACES

[ApproachMedium]

Indeed we have beat that one to death by now. It is what it is.

[Tom V]

The Fort Dix - Lakehurst - Earle Pier rapid military deployment "connection" has been discussed for some time now, mostly unpublicized meetings that few of the general public know about. Last I heard, most of the talk has been about upgrading the former Southern north (east) to the Earle switch, so far little has been done except talk.

That makes so much sense, they're building that massive Northeast National Guard Equipment concentration site along Route 539 on Lakehurst property. It's going to store weapons,tanks, vehicles, artillery, equipment etc.. for Army National Guard Units from throughout the Northeast. And what they've built (which is huge) is only phase I, there's a Phase II which is even bigger and should break ground next years as it's been funded. The Army Reserves have also received funding for their own consolidated equipment site, not sure where that will be located but it's going to be similar to the National Guard facility hosting equipment and weapons from Army Reserve Units from the entire Northeast, Pennsylvania and I think Ohio. Having the ability to move this equipment to these sites on rail is a big asset, as is the ability to deploy these assets from Fort Dix/Lakehurst to ships at Earle Naval Weapons station.

One thing I've been wondering is that the 10th Mountain Division at Fort Drum's designated departure point for equipment used to be the Marine Ocean Terminal in Bayonne, now it's Howland hook. With Howland Hooks rapid growth, terrible Geothalls bridge and such why don't they use Earle's Piers?.. Seems they could store some equipment or munitions at Earle, and more easily deploy them when rotated down range.

Even stranger the 10th Mountain Division's Combat Aviation brigades are shipped out of Camden, they fly from Fort Drum (Wheeler Sack AAF) to the piers in Camden where they are wrapped in plastic and put on civilian ships. Again they should do this out of Earle NWS.

[PullmanCo]

The reason is time to travel, its an inconvenience due to various speed restrictions

An average speed of 55 mph is achievable notwithstanding, with a nonstop train. Since the route is at least 20 miles shorter than the one ACES is going to use (over which the ACES is going to run at an overall average speed of 55 mph anyhow), that would mean a faster journey.

[Jtgshu]

The reason is time to travel, its an inconvenience due to various speed restrictions

An average speed of 55 mph is achievable notwithstanding, with a nonstop train. Since the route is at least 20 miles shorter than the one ACES is going to use (over which the ACES is going to run at an overall average speed of 55 mph anyhow), that would mean a faster journey.

Wow, are you serious right now?

How many times can I spell it out?

Gotta admire your persistance though!

[PullmanCo]

With all due respect, what you seem to constantly "spell out" is the company line.

[finsuburbia]

With all due respect, what you seem to constantly "spell out" is the company line.

Because you are trolling. From Lakehurst to AC is 68 miles. The distance from Newark to Lakehurst for Monmouth Junction, Matawan and Red Bank are 71.7 miles (139.7 total), 62.2 miles (130.2 total) and 58.7 miles (126.7 total), respectively. Using the NEC, it is 133 miles. That's not 20 miles.

[Jtgshu]

With all due respect, what you seem to constantly "spell out" is the company line.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well, if facts are the "company line" then I guess I am guilty as charged......

PullmanCo, can you PLEASE enlighten us on YOUR numbers?

I think Ive been (along with others, like finsurbia in the above post) pretty clear with our numbers and facts. Im very curious as to where you are coming up with yours.

This is fun, isn't it????

[PullmanCo]

I think Ive been (along with others, like finsurbia in the above post) pretty clear with our numbers and facts

What facts? There are no facts until the train's actually running. Aside from that, there is just noise. Fact remains that the ACES route is at least 20 miles longer than going via the Southern Division, but that's for another thread. (Do you know how to measure distance on maps?)

[Jtgshu]

I think Ive been (along with others, like finsurbia in the above post) pretty clear with our numbers and facts

What facts? There are no facts until the train's actually running. Aside from that, there is just noise. Fact remains that the ACES route is at least 20 miles longer than going via the Southern Division, but that's for another thread. (Do you know how to measure distance on maps?)

Very true, Ill give you that, we don't know until the train is running. However, like I have said before, I have made nearly identical moves, including changing ends at Shore. So i like to think that I do have an idea as to how the train is going to be run, more so than you (uh oh - is that a "company line?!??!?!" OH NO!)

I don't care about the distance on maps, I care about running times. However, yes, I do know how to measure distance on maps, thanks for asking and for your concern!

Ever use a GPS navigation system? It usually gives you a few choices - Shortest Route, Quickest Route, avoiding tollways, etc etc. Quite often, the actual shortest route isn't the quickest route. I want to know system/website are you using to show that the route via the NEC and Shore is 20 miles longer than the Southern Secondary????? And what about Finsurbia's numbers? They seem pretty accurate to me, and the numbers through to Lakehurst could probably be gotten from the MOM studies on the NJT website. That leaves the Lakehurst/Winslow Jct and Winslow Jct to AC left for "discussion". But those distances have been discussed on here countless times as well, so whatever.

Ive given you plenty of facts which you continue to ignore as to why the SS would NOT be shorter TIME WISE than the NEC. Diverting at Union, Diverting at Red Bank, coming on to the ACL in Winslow Jct just happen to pop in my head. But again, you keep beating this distance drum to death and coming up with this "at least 20 miles longer" non-sense and still haven't answered my question on where you are getting that information.

So what if it is shorter mileage wise??? Who cares???? It is NOT going to be the quickest way TIME WISE and thats really all that matters.

"Hello, is this thing on?" *tap* *tap* *tap* "All Im hearing is 'noise'........"

[NY&LB]

Talk about "beating a dead horse"!!!

As I posted last JULY on the CNJ Forum:

For the "constructed" route I'll call CNJ:
NYP to Red Bank via NY&LB (PRR) 45.0 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Red Bank - AC via CNJ 96.9 miles (April 1941 OAG)
Total Mileage: 141.9

For the "constructed" route I'll call PRR:
NYP to Shore: 82.1 miles (PC ETT #5 May 1970) {Frankfort Jct is 81.2}
Shore to Division Post PRSL: 9 miles (PC ETT#5)
Division(District) Post to AC: 53 Miles (PRSL ETT #7-F, Oct 1962)
Total Mileage: 144.1

So Mr. Sleeping Car, what's wrong with those numbers????? The Exchange Place vs. NYP argument doesn't enter into it since the distance from NYP are pulled from TT's not Mile Posts. Of course, the distance from the CNJ Jersey City Terminal is another few miles shorter but that's another story, hey, let's run the train from there, rebuild the Bayonne - E-Port bridge and we'd have a shorter (thus FASTER by some theories) route...but wait, the CNJ Blue Comet took longer than PRR trains (via Bordentown)!

I also looked at service in 1941, PRR carded 4 name trains as follows:

lv NYP 9:05 am ar AC 11:50 am Sea Plane
lv NYP 12:15 pm ar AC 3:05 pm Sea Clipper
lv NYP 2:15 pm ar AC 5:00 pm Nellie Bly
lv NYP 5:20 pm ar AC 8:05 pm Flying Spray

In contrast, the CNJ only carded the Blue Comet as follows

lv Liberty Street 10:00 am ar AC 1:00 pm (Yea, cut off 10 minutes for the ferry)

So this has been discussed in the CNJ forum, the Atlantic City service thread and now in MOM, let's see where else we could drag this one, how about the PRSL and PRR forums????

As for the "Company Line" I do not work for any Railroad.

Trying to read milage off a road map is not a very exact technique, I guess if you straight lined NYP to Shore and Shore to AC for the route and compaired that to a straight lined NYP to Winslow Jct and Winslow Jct to AC you MIGHT come up with something that looks much shorter, but that would be incorrect.

I also concur with the undisputable "expert" data on speed restrictions provided by Jtgshu.

[radioboy]

Regardless of the NYP-AC issue, a connection from Lakehurst to the AC Line would be nice to have someday in the far off future. Put it on the list next to service along the Barnegat Branch to the Toms River Bus Terminal.

[Jtgshu]

Regardless of the NYP-AC issue, a connection from Lakehurst to the AC Line would be nice to have someday in the far off future. Put it on the list next to service along the Barnegat Branch to the Toms River Bus Terminal.

It would be nice to have an extension of MOM to the AC Line, and use it as a secondary level of passenger service. As I have said before, I think we might see the Southern Secondary eventually rebuilt for freight service, and that would make it much easier to operate it for pass service.

Thats not to say that it would be the quickest way to Atlantic City, but it would be a secondary level of service (regular NJT fares), and a longer, much longer ride, as it would be like a MOM local.