SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

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ekt8750
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by ekt8750 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:36 am

rcthompson04 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:36 am
mcgrath618 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:21 am
ekt8750 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:00 am
Wawa also isn't a municipality. It's an unincorporated section of Middletown Twp.
Pardon me, I was confusing Wawa, USA with Wawa, Canada :)
What is the next logical extension point past Middletown? Seeing SEPTA is taking a progression approach here, would the next stop on the way to West Chester if this works be where the line crosses under 926?
The next step is West Chester and is in SEPTA's distant plans. I doubt the extension will go all the way to Market St though. There is a huge open plot of land at Nields St where SEPTA could build a station, layup yard and park 'n ride and not have to evict the WCRR. The line to the station can split off the current alignment just before Nields and WCRR can keep their facilities where they are now. West Chester buses can stop there on their way to the West Chester Transportation Center to make transfers. In fact I would have the 92 actually terminate there and make the TC just a stop for that route.

nomis
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by nomis » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:58 am

Although the Station & park and ride in the location may work for the borough's goals along with a TOD element, I don't think the borough (not counting the NIMBY's) would want the layup yard located there.
The Wyeth property has been a subject of planning study in the Borough for many years. General planning recommendations include supporting a mix of commercial, residential and recreation uses that generates a tax base, in a development pattern that is compatible with adjacent uses and extends that traditional neighborhood character and pedestrian orientation of the Borough. Future development should incorporate bicycle and pedestrian connections from the site to the Downtown, University, and adjacent neighborhoods. All impacts, including traffic, fiscal, and environmental, should be addressed in the development approval process.
From the Borough of West Chester Comprehensive Plan & Urban Center Plan 2016 - PDF Page 24-25
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BuddCar711
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by BuddCar711 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:13 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:16 pm
The good news: the Wawa Extension pushes forward, and they expect to start construction on the station before the end of the year.

The bad news: it’s no longer called Wawa. It’s now “Middletown.” Oh well.
I thought it would be called 7-11.

mcgrath618
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by mcgrath618 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:08 pm

The line continued to meet the Mainline around Exton, no?

rcthompson04
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:04 pm

mcgrath618 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:08 pm
The line continued to meet the Mainline around Exton, no?
I don’t think rebuilding on the old line between Fraser and West Chester is viable. There is a ton of right of way encroachment especially south of King Road. I talked to an official once about running it in the extra right of way along 202 from King Road down to West Chester. Definitely enough room for a single line operation and could be timed with the eventual rebuild of 202 south of 30, but clearly way above the minds of most.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:49 pm

Septa Regional Rail will never serve West Chester anymore. The right of way, presently used by the West Chester Railroad, is very twisty, making it not viable at all for quick daily rail service. On the other hand, West Chester Railroad is looking at running some trips to connect to Septa trains at Wawa, when it opens up.

ekt8750
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by ekt8750 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:13 am

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:49 pm
Septa Regional Rail will never serve West Chester anymore. The right of way, presently used by the West Chester Railroad, is very twisty, making it not viable at all for quick daily rail service.
Nothing some basic engineering can't overcome. Superelevation on tighter curves can alleviate that.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:10 am

Wow, I just saw that the name Wawa Station is going to be changed to Middletown. Maybe they should keep Wawa in the station name but say Middletown-Wawa. Being that Middletown is huge, that will help people know where the station is by saying Wawa in the name. We don't want to confuse the future Middletown on the Septa system with the Middletown Amtrak station. It's like in NJT land, there are two Middletowns served by the system, the one in NJ on the NJCL as well as the one in NY State served by the Pt. Jervis Line, in which NJT jointly operates the service with Metro North. MNR owns the Middletown Station in NY State, actually located in Walkill.

JeffK
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by JeffK » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:08 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:10 am
It's like in NJT land, there are two Middletowns served by the system, the one in NJ on the NJCL as well as the one in NY State served by the Pt. Jervis Line, in which NJT jointly operates the service with Metro North. MNR owns the Middletown Station in NY State, actually located in Walkill.
At least out here in the western 'burbs SEPTA doesn't seem to have any problems with double names - or the confusion they can create. There's already unavoidable duplication where both the Paoli-Thorndale and NHSL/P&W serve the same communities (e.g. Villanova, Haverford, etc.) which over the years has caused loads of suprises for the uninitiated * . However they've been making it worse by gradually renaming more of the stations even where there's no reasonable correspondence. The strangest is changing the century-old King Manor P&W station to DeKalb Street, which was the former name of the main RRD station in Norristown that itself has been rebranded as NTC ... AND the two are over a mile apart. Go figure.

* When I was a regular commuter into the city, I'd see people on the wrong line at least a couple of times every week meaning the total number must have been considerably more. The worst was back in the days of paper tickets; newbies would often put their RRD ticket into the P&W farebox where they'd vanish without recovery.
Requiem for it's/its, your/you're, than/then, less/fewer. They were once such nice words with such different meanings...

ChemiosMurphy
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by ChemiosMurphy » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:13 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:10 am
Wow, I just saw that the name Wawa Station is going to be changed to Middletown. Maybe they should keep Wawa in the station name but say Middletown-Wawa
Why give it away for free when you can profit from it?

I imagine Wawa marketing would want to capitalize on the opportunity to sponsor a station stop in their backyard. The Wawa logo on every system map. If Jefferson can do it, surely Wawa can.
BuddCar711 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:13 pm
I thought it would be called 7-11.
That would be a stunningly brilliant troll job. Let the bidding war commence. Gotta pay for those new Bombardier EMU MLV's somehow...

JimBoylan
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by JimBoylan » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:02 am

JeffK wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:05 pm
Show your Key card and get a buck off a hoagie!
There is precedent, when Reading Terminal opened in 1893 over the Reading Terminal Market, the railroad's president offered, among other inducements, an apple for the teacher with every school ticket. He also mentioned that the market's "fish are fresh, our conductors are not"!

rcthompson04
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:46 am

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:49 pm
Septa Regional Rail will never serve West Chester anymore. The right of way, presently used by the West Chester Railroad, is very twisty, making it not viable at all for quick daily rail service. On the other hand, West Chester Railroad is looking at running some trips to connect to Septa trains at Wawa, when it opens up.
I have a hard time with the “winding” argument because commuter service was operated to West Chester until the 1980s. If Silverliner IVs handled it back then why couldn’t they handle it now?

I am not the hugest fan at coming into West Chester through Media though. The West Chester station would be the closest to my house, but I would still have a quicker ride from Malvern or Exton even with the drive. Trying to make it work via the Mainline as I described would be a better option in my opinion.

rcthompson04
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by rcthompson04 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:49 pm

Speaking of service to West Chester, does anyone have an old timetable from the early 1980s showing the service? I am curious what the travel times were on the line.

ExCon90
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by ExCon90 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:03 pm

I don't have one handy, but I remember that it was about 25 minutes between West Chester and Elwyn. It was Manual Block with the block extending from Elwyn to Nields St., so nothing could leave West Chester until the previous train had arrived at Elwyn. In the morning I think they ran one monster deadhead train from Media with enough cars for three consists, which then left West Chester as three different trains in succession, with about a half hour between departures. No opposing movements could take place during that period.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: SEPTA Rebuilding for the Future Updates

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:31 pm

If you live in and around West Chester, especially on the north side of town, you are better off going to either Exton or even Malvern. Last year, I made a daytrip to ride the West Chester Railroad and I took an Amtrak Keystone to and from Exton and then Ubered from that station to Downtown West Chester.

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