CR on the Southern Secondary

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bigblue5277
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by bigblue5277 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:42 pm

Here’s train going through the asphalt plant.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/706973/

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R&DB
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by R&DB » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:54 am

bigblue5277 wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:42 pm
Here’s train going through the asphalt plant.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/706973/
And Stavola, with all that bulk material, does not utilize rail service?
Harry

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RailsEast
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by RailsEast » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:54 pm

A CNJ track map from the mid-50s shows a siding at that point on the line, but my 3 trips back there over the past 10 years through the old cemetery showed no remains of a siding. I delivered sand & stone into the plant in the mid-80s and never saw any rail cars there.
Their sand comes from Ocean county, so it's cheaper to short-haul it via truck and, if I remember correctly, back then the stone came from Trap Rock in Kingston or Titusville along the Delaware River. Both of the Trap Rock quarries had rail service as late as the 1960s, but that all went away with the railroads losing money on seldom used branch lines and the technology that allowed newer trucks to carry more payload and the state laws allowing those larger vehicles to roam the highways and byways.
Chris
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CharlieL
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by CharlieL » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm

With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:11 pm

CharlieL wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm
With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?
It is possible as part of the MOM project.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

Fast Eddie
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Fast Eddie » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:27 pm

Hi, I`m a former engineer on this road. I left conrail in 1988. I`ve been following this group and find it very interesting. A lot has changed since I left. Enjoy all comments and pictures.

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R&DB
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by R&DB » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:12 am

CharlieL wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm
With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?
People have been talking about this since CNJ stopped passenger service in 1953. Probably will never happen due to the enormous cost to rebuild the line. (track, roadced, signalling, stations, crossings, etc.) Would be nice though.
Coast Line Railfan » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:11 pm

CharlieL wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:44 pm
With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?
It is possible as part of the MOM project.
NJT MOM project is a more glamorous plan for rail service Lakehurst - Lakewood - Farmingdalle - Freehold - Jamesburg - Monmouth - NEC. NIMBYs say NO!
Harry

Bracdude181
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Bracdude181 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:49 pm

Just got word that 5628 derailed yesterday. Hate to say it but I hope this means we won't be seeing it this week lol.

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CSX4421
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by CSX4421 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:52 pm

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but apparently ‘31 derailed in Freehold yesterday...
One does not simply go railfanning without seeing something good

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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:56 am

Bracdude181 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:49 pm
Just got word that 5628 derailed yesterday. Hate to say it but I hope this means we won't be seeing it this week lol.
Monday's SA-31 with 4432 derailed inside the Prestone Plant. The 31 also outlawed at Prestone. Yesterday, the SA-3 came to rescue 4432 and the train with 4421. 4432 (or a car, we're not sure which derailed) was rerailed and the plant was drilled. At about 3:00, 4421 and 4432 proceeded back towards Freehold LHF with a few cars.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

Bracdude181
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Bracdude181 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:59 am

@Coast Line Railfan So 5628 wasn't on the freehold run? I was told it went to freehold Monday and that it derailed due to a track defect. I did hear about 4421 rescuing the train though.

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Coast Line Railfan
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:02 am

Bracdude181 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:59 am
@Coast Line Railfan So 5628 wasn't on the freehold run? I was told it went to freehold Monday and that it derailed due to a track defect. I did hear about 4421 rescuing the train though.
4432 was on the 31 on Monday. 5628 was on the SA-3 that day.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

GSC
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by GSC » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:53 am

Coast Line Railfan wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:11 pm
CharlieL wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm
With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?
It is possible as part of the MOM project.
I've said for years that the MOM project should start in Toms River. Take Ciba-Geigy's yard for a park & ride. Need a feasibility study? Sit by the Parkway on Route 37 during rush hour.
They tell me to act my age. I don't know how to do that. I've never been this old before.

Rustygunz60
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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Rustygunz60 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:04 pm

GSC wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:53 am
Coast Line Railfan wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:11 pm
CharlieL wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm
With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?
It is possible as part of the MOM project.
I've said for years that the MOM project should start in Toms River. Take Ciba-Geigy's yard for a park & ride. Need a feasibility study? Sit by the Parkway on Route 37 during rush hour.

I'm not sure this is the best idea. The MOM plan isn't searching for a terminus. It's fighting resistance to even get to ocean county. Rt 37 would be the busiest grade crossing within the Ocean County portion and would likely only only stir more resistance. The fact that Route 37 west of the GSP is dominated by drivers coming from Holiday City and other nearby age-restricted communities is an additional concern. That subset of our population has a higher incidence of driving through store fronts and similar vehicular behavior. Living in Ocean County, I see it every day. I once witnessed an older driver driving the wrong way on Rt 37 on the east side of the GSP during a snowfall. He shook his fist at myself a another driver for driving "the wrong way" on the road. We have enough numskulls driving through and around crossing gate elsewhere, with the public and media blaming the railroad rather than the drivers when an accident occurs, to not put that particular crossing back into service. Traffic was much different when Ciba was at its peak.

Another, if not perfect, option is the Toms River bus station. It would involve replacing the track from there to the Ciba/Builders General spur, including the small trestle over the Union Branch of the Toms River. The advantage is that the bus station and parking lot is already NJT property. The lot might not handle the additional usage, but then some riders now taking the bus might use the rails instead. A parking deck could also help. A deck would be costly, but so would buying the Ciba property. Perhaps there's other cons to that option I'm missing?

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Re: CR on the Southern Secondary

Post by Coast Line Railfan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:20 pm

Rustygunz60 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:04 pm
GSC wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:53 am
Coast Line Railfan wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:11 pm
CharlieL wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:44 pm
With all the building going on in Lakewood and points south (thank you Woodhaven for keeping the southern secondary alive) you would think NJT would have some interest in looking into providing some passenger service on the southern. Doodlebugs Lakewood (or Toms River) to Red Bank or beyond?
It is possible as part of the MOM project.
I've said for years that the MOM project should start in Toms River. Take Ciba-Geigy's yard for a park & ride. Need a feasibility study? Sit by the Parkway on Route 37 during rush hour.

I'm not sure this is the best idea. The MOM plan isn't searching for a terminus. It's fighting resistance to even get to ocean county. Rt 37 would be the busiest grade crossing within the Ocean County portion and would likely only only stir more resistance. The fact that Route 37 west of the GSP is dominated by drivers coming from Holiday City and other nearby age-restricted communities is an additional concern. That subset of our population has a higher incidence of driving through store fronts and similar vehicular behavior. Living in Ocean County, I see it every day. I once witnessed an older driver driving the wrong way on Rt 37 on the east side of the GSP during a snowfall. He shook his fist at myself a another driver for driving "the wrong way" on the road. We have enough numskulls driving through and around crossing gate elsewhere, with the public and media blaming the railroad rather than the drivers when an accident occurs, to not put that particular crossing back into service. Traffic was much different when Ciba was at its peak.

Another, if not perfect, option is the Toms River bus station. It would involve replacing the track from there to the Ciba/Builders General spur, including the small trestle over the Union Branch of the Toms River. The advantage is that the bus station and parking lot is already NJT property. The lot might not handle the additional usage, but then some riders now taking the bus might use the rails instead. A parking deck could also help. A deck would be costly, but so would buying the Ciba property. Perhaps there's other cons to that option I'm missing?
I also think it is known that the Ciba plant Area isn't the healthiest. I've heard accounts and descriptions of the toxic "wasteland" that place is, but it's possible that that is not a concern for a station or terminal. In addition, 4421 will be leading today's run on the Southern.
-David
-Southern Division Rail Productions

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