Amtrak on the Florida East Coast FEC Jacksonville - Miami

[trainmaster611]

No one appears to have considered the obvious: build a connection in the NE quadrant of the diamonds at Iris, and run Tri-Rail trains to downtown Miami (where the FEC station site is now a parking lot). Instead they're building a new "Miami Intermodal Center" out at the airport, and there's a branch of the Miami Metro almost completed out to it.

That is the ideal solution -- move all passenger operations to the FEC between WPB and Miami. After all, it hits the CBD of every single community, town, and city in South Florida. I think the reason why that's off the table is the inland route is already owned by the state, they just spent $333 million double tracking it, and, most importantly, the infrastructure already exists to support passenger service. It's going to happen eventually though.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Trainmaster, here is an overhead view of Iris - the SAL/FEC X-ing Ms. Bly notes. You should be able to see its proximity to both the Amtrak Miami station as well as the Tri-Rail Metro Transfer station. It is also evident from this view that a connection built through the NE quadrant would have "not exactly" displaced too much in the way of high value real estate:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=miami+flo ... 16&vpsrc=6

Regarding your thought as to which route, SAL or FEC, should have been the passenger train route West Palm Miami, I wholly agree with your position; so would any urban planner worthy of holding professional credentials. However, "what's done is done - and there is no turning back'.

[trainmaster611]

Mr. Trainmaster, here is an overhead view of Iris - the SAL/FEC X-ing Ms. Bly notes. You should be able to see its proximity to both the Amtrak Miami station as well as the Tri-Rail Metro Transfer station. It is also evident from this view that a connection built through the NE quadrant would have "not exactly" displaced too much in the way of high value real estate:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=miami+flo ... 16&vpsrc=6

Regarding your thought as to which route, SAL or FEC, should have been the passenger train route West Palm Miami, I wholly agree with your position; so would any urban planner worthy of holding professional credentials. However, "what's done is done - and there is no turning back'.

Oh yeah sorry, I was confused. For some reason, I was thinking of the connection north of West Palm Beach. The Iris connection is definitely a good one for the shorter term -- it would make sense to divert both Amtrak and Tri-rail downtown and they have nothing to gain by terminating at the airport instead. But I refuse to believe there is no turning back. Passenger service on the FEC between WPB and Miami will inevitably return, it's only a question of how long that might take.

[JasW]

After earlier (but costly) proposals from FDOT and FEC, Tri-Rail just proposed its own plan last week: split its WPB-Miami service between the SAL/CSX tracks and the FEC tracks, and have it up and running in three years:

Tri-Rail could offer downtown service between Miami, Lauderdale and West Palm Beach in 3-5 years

Amtrak is never going to happen in downtown. People arriving in Miami via Amtrak are either going to rent a car, or hop a cab to their hotel or the cruise ships. They can do that more easily from the station east of the airport. It might be a different story if Metrorail actually went where people want to go (usually South Beach). But it doesn't.

[NellieBly]

Interesting. I was a subcontractor on the "South Florida East Coast Corridor Study" that is mentioned (not by name) in the article. The "locally preferred alternative" ended up being commuter rail from Miami to Pompano on FEC, using the Pompano Market spur to connect with Tri-Rail, plus an extension of Tri-Rail to Jupiter via a new connection to FEC north of the present Northwood connection. This isn't too big a departure from that.

However, I think what is proposed would require double tracking FEC from Pompano to Little River (as of course it once was). North of Pompano, a relatively small number of trains per day, making limited stops, could probably be accommodated on the existing FEC ROW.

One way or the other, service on FEC just makes sense, as does service directly to downtown Miami. I recommended this to the SFECC steering committee, but they had no interest in anything but the "MIC" (Miami Intermodal Center). I also proposed a new freight route from west of Hialeah, north along US 27 to Lake Okeechobee, where it would intersect the FEC Belle Glade branch, and enable intermodal and rock trains out of Hialeah to bypass the Gold Coast altogether. That was way too big a concept for anyone to swallow.

[Gilbert B Norman]

"Last time I checked", namely when I was last "down below" during this past February, there is no assurance that Amtrak will use the Intermodal Center - MIC.

I can think of reasons why Amtrak should not use the facility. First, the existing station is "right sized' and adequately attractive for the 'two a day' it handles, and if somehow the political winds blow differently and there is an initiative for additional trains, they also could be handled if they were spaced throughout the day . Secondly, the reverse moves that would be necessitated will simply add to congestion over and interference with FEC freight operations X-ing the Iris diamond. This means the new transfer runs between the Port and the FEC Hialeah container facility.

So far as passenger convenience, the only segment of Amtrak's Miami passengers that would be benefited are those that rent autos - and somehow i think that is a mighty small segment. I guess there are too are some that could find the airport ground transportation offerings convenient. But somehow i think more passengers than not are "met' by friends or relatives, and for that segment, there would be considerably longer walks to the auto, a much greater possibility of "losing" it (you know; elderly and overwhelmed), and having to pay for that parking.

I also must question what commercial use for the land on which the station (that would presumably be razed) is located could be found - even if the real estate market should warm up again.

All told, Amtrak's best interests could well be best served by simply staying put.

[Noel Weaver]

Amtrak's best interests would be served by their operation in these parts on the Florida East Coast serving the resorts on the east coast of our state as well as the downtowns of Boca Raton, Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood and espcially Miami. If this does not happen then their best interests would probably be to simply stay put. Any passengers on Amtrak can easily make a convenient connection by frequent commuter rail service between West Palm Beach, Deerfield Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Hollywood all of which have staffed Amtrak stations with waiting rooms and facilities as well as commuter rail stops.
I still think the day will come when Amtrak will be running on the Florida East Coast, it is just a question of how much longer before this happens and on that, nobody knows at this point.
Noel Weaver

[JasW]

Looks like it's coming to fruition, though as both Nellie and I have indicated, the trains will jump over to CSX/Tri-Rail tracks for the West Palm to Miami leg on the Northwood Crossover north of West Palm.

From this morning's Miami Herald:

FEC aims to begin Miami-Jacksonville passenger service by 2015

I can only imagine that the reference to "construct[ing] a connector just north of West Palm Beach" refers to improving the Northwood Crossover. If you look at a map of the crossover, you'll see the one thing missing is a northbound connection to (or southbound connection from) the FEC tracks. That's also going to be a tight turn.

[Jeff Smith]

Brief quote from ^link:

Direct Amtrak service between Florida’s two largest cities might be just a few years away.

The state plans to spend about $118 million to restore passenger service to Henry Flagler’s old railroad — the Florida East Coast Railway — between Jacksonville and Miami.

The money will help build stations in eight coastal towns between Stuart and Jacksonville, construct a connector just north of West Palm Beach and make other improvements.

The Florida Department of Transportation estimates service could begin in 2015.

Currently, Amtrak service between Miami and Jacksonville runs on CSX Transportation tracks that parallel Interstate 95. But that trip takes about 10 hours because the CSX tracks veer west through Orlando.

The FEC route would shorten that to six hours.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/11/30/2 ... z1fJJPxB2q

Excellent news. For personal reasons, I wish there were a New Smyrna Beach stop, but I suppose Daytona would be close enough. Anyone remember the eight stops?

[njtmnrrbuff]

I'm sure the number of roundtrips operating on the FEC will be more than what is said in the article. I remember reading a planning study saying that there would be corridor trains running along the FEC. It would be nice to have corridor trains, as well as long distance trains run on that route.

[afiggatt]

I'm sure the number of roundtrips operating on the FEC will be more than what is said in the article. I remember reading a planning study saying that there would be corridor trains running along the FEC. It would be nice to have corridor trains, as well as long distance trains run on that route.

The application submitted by Florida for the FY10 HSIPR funds called for Phase 1 to consist of splitting the Silver Star at Jacksonville and one additional daily round-trip between Miami and Jacksonville. Amtrak was to supply the equipment for the initial once a day corridor train service. So there would be be 2 daily round trip options between Miami and Jacksonville at the start.

Phase 2 was for 3 daily FEC corridor trains between Cocoa and Miami. Phase 3 would be one additional corridor train between Jacksonville and Cocoa which strikes me as extending a train from Cocoa to Jacksonville. The primary cost of implementing Phase 2 and 3 is the acquisition of new rolling stock at $140 million total. People here are focused on the LD service running down the Florida coast, but Florida's primary goal is to establish a intercity corridor service with multiple daily frequencies over the FEC.

[Mr.T]

The application submitted by Florida for the FY10 HSIPR funds called for Phase 1 to consist of splitting the Silver Star at Jacksonville and one additional daily round-trip between Miami and Jacksonville. Amtrak was to supply the equipment for the initial once a day corridor train service. So there would be be 2 daily round trip options between Miami and Jacksonville at the start.

Would the Tampa section of the Silver Star terminate at Tampa, or will it continue from there to Miami along the current route? It would be redundant to have both sections go to Miami, but if they didn't they would lose Tampa-Miami service. I don't know how many passengers travel between those two cities so I don't know how big an issue this is.

[trainviews]

The application submitted by Florida for the FY10 HSIPR funds called for Phase 1 to consist of splitting the Silver Star at Jacksonville and one additional daily round-trip between Miami and Jacksonville. Amtrak was to supply the equipment for the initial once a day corridor train service. So there would be be 2 daily round trip options between Miami and Jacksonville at the start.

Would the Tampa section of the Silver Star terminate at Tampa, or will it continue from there to Miami along the current route? It would be redundant to have both sections go to Miami, but if they didn't they would lose Tampa-Miami service. I don't know how many passengers travel between those two cities so I don't know how big an issue this is.

I don't think there are any official numbers, but generally people report a large intra-Florida ridership Miami-Tampa. Already today the route from Miami and norht is served quicker by the Meteor, and a second quicker train could likely kill most of the through traffic at Tampa.

But aside from the local passengers, there is also the issue of the trains having to go to maintenance service in the yards in Hialeh. I don't know if the Meteor and half the Star will be enough to keep up a decent circulation, but in between that and not having layover facilities in Tampa, Amtrak will probably keep on running it to Miami.

The third reason is political. Miami-Tampa is probably next on the list for a state supported corridor with multiple frequencies in Florida, and that will be much more likely as long as it is an active long distance route with active stations etc. Terminating it would be politically stupid in a state where rail has a good deal of political support, but also a lot of resistance.

[Station Aficionado]

Actually, there are official numbers, or at least official information. Per the fact sheets (FY2010) on the NARP website (info is from Amtrak), the top three city pairs for ridership on the Star are: Miami-Tampa; West Palm-Beach-Tampa; and Ft. Lauderdale-Tampa. In addition, Hollywood-Tampa is sixth, and Deerfield Beach-Tampa is eighth. And, even when the Meteor ridership (no service to Tampa) is added, Tampa is the number one destination for riders from Miami, Hollywood, Ft. Lauderdale, Deerfield Beach and West Palm, and number two for Delray Beach. Although Amtrak's Florida service seems focused more on Orlando and the east coast, Tampa produces more riders (140k in FY2011) than any of the east coast stops, and is behind only the AT terminal at Sanford and Orlando for total ridership in the state.

[afiggatt]

Actually, there are official numbers, or at least official information. Per the fact sheets (FY2010) on the NARP website (info is from Amtrak), the top three city pairs for ridership on the Star are: Miami-Tampa; West Palm-Beach-Tampa; and Ft. Lauderdale-Tampa. In addition, Hollywood-Tampa is sixth, and Deerfield Beach-Tampa is eighth. And, even when the Meteor ridership (no service to Tampa) is added, Tampa is the number one destination for riders from Miami, Hollywood, Ft. Lauderdale, Deerfield Beach and West Palm, and number two for Delray Beach. Although Amtrak's Florida service seems focused more on Orlando and the east coast, Tampa produces more riders (140k in FY2011) than any of the east coast stops, and is behind only the AT terminal at Sanford and Orlando for total ridership in the state.

The recent released PRIIA mandated Product Improvement Plan for the Crescent, LSL, and Silver services provided percentages with the top 10 station pairs by ridership. For the Silver Star, the top station pairs are: Tampa-Miami 5%, Tampa-West Palm Beach 4%, Tampa-Fort Lauderdale 3%, Tampa-Orlando 3%, the first out of state pair Orlando-Raleigh 2%, then Tampa-Hollywood 2%. The second top city pair for the Meteor after NYP-Orlando 5% is Miami-Orlando at 3%. Both the Silvers see a fair amount of traffic for intercity passenger travel within the state of Florida.

The ridership share for Tampa to southern Florida is impressive when you consider that those waiting in Tampa to get on southbound Star are waiting for a train that will frequently be late. Shows that there is a market for a Miami - Tampa - Orlando intercity corridor service if Florida and Amtrak were to start one. With the SunRail project fixing up the tracks for a 61 mile section centered on Orlando and Tri-Rail from Miami to WPB, they provide a foundation for Amtrak corridor service.

If the Star splits at Jacksonville, with 11 hours via Orlando-Tampa versus ~6.5 hours on the FEC to Miami, that will save a lot of time for those headed to WPB to Miami from points north of Jacksonville. And makes the Star trip times from the NEC to southern FL stops competitive with the Meteor, which I guess is a main reason for splitting the Star at Jacksonville and not the Meteor.

The split will make for a interesting but more complicated schedule for people booking the Star. The northbound Star will presumably be leaving Miami in 2 sections at different times. The first section for Tampa & Orlando departs at 11:50 AM, the second section running over the FEC leaves 4 hours later? That is likely to confuse some people booking the train on-line.