EMD SD80MAC and SD90MAC series official thread

[Leo_Ames]

Its been reported at Trains Magazine's newswire that Union Pacific is going to be stripping useful parts off their h-engined SD90MAC's and scrapping the frame and possibly the engines.

I always kind of pictured a reengining program to place 710's in them, but I guess that's just too expensive and not a simple thing to do.

Anyone know if their 710 engined SD90MAC's may be the next to go? Seemed like they had a pretty large fleet, and I assume they're mostly identical besides the engine since they were designed to be easily convertible so they could be upgraded quickly with a h-engine when the design was perfected.

I'm surprised they couldn't export them, isn't China recieving large numbers of locomotives that use EMD's H-engine rated at 6,000hp?

[Luther Brefo]

The problem is that the conversion really only works easily in one direction (ie turning a 43 into a true 90MAC)

[MEC407]

Want to buy an SD90MAC? CP has a few for sale and I'm sure they'd make a deal that you can't refuse. CP SD90MACs For Sale

[tomjohn]

The space in the middle was to seperate the DDA40X's two prime movers.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=76300
keep asking keep learning

Oh wow! I always thought that space was an attempt by EMD to keep the Centennial prime movers cool .Well,that was what I was told by a old u.p.rr loco engineer.

Tom

[atsf sp]

What a failure on EMDs part. How many years have these been in service and are already being scrapped? And they can't even turn them into SD9043MACs because the body won't work. Send the failure of an engine to a museum, not.

[kalvingp30fan]

What happened to the SD89 demo?

[sd80mac]

I was pretty hard on switch engines, infact im hard on equipment all around. If i dont break it, no one else will.

haha
Deaf kids will break it...

School maintnance guy went to a meeting where most maintnance guys from other schools went to (cant recall what kind of meeting). Anvil was brought up in conversation and they said no one could break it. This guy told them that deaf kids will split anvil in half...

That now you brought that up brought my memory back.. hahaha..

[Jtgshu]

I was pretty hard on switch engines, infact im hard on equipment all around. If i dont break it, no one else will.

haha
Deaf kids will break it...

School maintnance guy went to a meeting where most maintnance guys from other schools went to (cant recall what kind of meeting). Anvil was brought up in conversation and they said no one could break it. This guy told them that deaf kids will split anvil in half...

That now you brought that up brought my memory back.. hahaha..

Thats one of the reasons why a lot of RR'ers like the "older" stuff - in particular the '40-2 series. the new stuff is nice, and comfy, and safer, and ergonomic and all that jazz, but all that stuff doesn't help when you are stuck somewhere, it doesn't matter where, just not anywhere where you need to be (i.e. where your car is) because some computer went heywire or didn't like the "throttle command" or some other nonsense.

the "new stuff" on my RR is rescued by the "old stuff" all the time. And being in commuter service, the extra second or two or five that the computer takes to actually load the loco REALLY adds up over the course of 10-15 or more stops. the 4200HP is wasted by making up those precious seconds. the 3000HP GP40-2 makes quicker time because i move the throttle and *GASP* it LOADS! what a concept....

railroaders are REALLY hard on the equipment. and quite frankly, it sure seems that the newer stuff simply can't handle it. Its the nature of the job, not to purposely beat the living crap out of the stuff, but to get it what you want it to do, and the whole railroad environment is a tough place. A GP9 that has been in switching service for 60 years says something about being built to take it. For some reason, I don't think we are gonna see these fancy new gensets still kickin cars in 60 years.....

[mbta1051dan]

I was pretty hard on switch engines, infact im hard on equipment all around. If i dont break it, no one else will.

haha
Deaf kids will break it...

School maintnance guy went to a meeting where most maintnance guys from other schools went to (cant recall what kind of meeting). Anvil was brought up in conversation and they said no one could break it. This guy told them that deaf kids will split anvil in half...

That now you brought that up brought my memory back.. hahaha..

Thats one of the reasons why a lot of RR'ers like the "older" stuff - in particular the '40-2 series. the new stuff is nice, and comfy, and safer, and ergonomic and all that jazz, but all that stuff doesn't help when you are stuck somewhere, it doesn't matter where, just not anywhere where you need to be (i.e. where your car is) because some computer went heywire or didn't like the "throttle command" or some other nonsense.

the "new stuff" on my RR is rescued by the "old stuff" all the time. And being in commuter service, the extra second or two or five that the computer takes to actually load the loco REALLY adds up over the course of 10-15 or more stops. the 4200HP is wasted by making up those precious seconds. the 3000HP GP40-2 makes quicker time because i move the throttle and *GASP* it LOADS! what a concept....

railroaders are REALLY hard on the equipment. and quite frankly, it sure seems that the newer stuff simply can't handle it. Its the nature of the job, not to purposely beat the living crap out of the stuff, but to get it what you want it to do, and the whole railroad environment is a tough place. A GP9 that has been in switching service for 60 years says something about being built to take it. For some reason, I don't think we are gonna see these fancy new gensets still kickin cars in 60 years.....

On many commuter railroads it really depends on the engineer. Most like to wipe the throttle right to the eighth notch, some are the other extreme, one notch every three seconds or so, and everything in between. Making up time is the key to commuter equipment, and for example a F40PH Screamer will get you right out of the station and up to 60 or 70 whereas a P42 for example will computerize your actions and take its sweet old loading time no matter how hard you punch the throttle.

Sorry to digress, but the same goes for automatic tour buses. The older Allison powershift transmissions allows instant power as soon as you punch the gas, but the new AS-Tronic transmission is an automatic that shifts like a manual. The gas pedal is computerized, and it selects any 1 out of 10 gears depending on the gradient, speed and amount of throttle the driver is giving. It will then slip the clutch and engage the gear. Most drivers seem to prefer the Allisons.

OK Back on topic, was there actually an SD-100 MAC?

[Bryanjones]

No, there is no such thing as an SD100MAC and EMD has never proposed such a model. Whoever started the various threads at the top of this forum came up with it.

Bryan Jones
Brooks,KY

[v8interceptor]

No, there is no such thing as an SD100MAC and EMD has never proposed such a model. Whoever started the various threads at the top of this forum came up with it.

Bryan Jones
Brooks,KY

You are completely correct about that, but........back in the Mid-1990's when GE and EMD where developing their respective 6,000HP locomotives I read a quote in one of the fan magazines (IIRC, it was TRAINS)from an unnamed EMD marketing person who stated that the company thought there would be a market for units in the 7,250-7,500 Horsepower range within 10 years...I have no doubt that the guy in question was speaking off the cuff and of course the actual service record of the SD90MAC-H did not meet exppectations but it does seem that they at least thought about a more powerful follow on to the 90 series...
GE did actually propose an AC7000CW (which would actually have been a 6,750 HP locomotive)using the 18 cylinder version of the HDL engine, there was a prototype built of the prime mover but not a demonstrator locomotive. The problems with the HDL and AC6000CW doomed that concept as well.......................

[Mr. Know It All]

While not "dead", the H engine will likely not be seen in rail applications for several more years. It is a successful and reliable stationary and marine engine with a good record. SD80MAC 20 cylinders are just fine. There have been no more problems with them than any other 710 engine...if properly maintained. 20-710's are VERY high demand in stationary power industry right now. No data to provethe numbers, but with the current price premium and lead times, if you needed a 20-710, it would be cheaper/faster to buy a used SD80MAC, overhaul the engine, and sell the rest to 90MAC owners for parts. ( everything else will interchange other than software).

SD9043's may be parked and sold but wont be chopped up. EMDEC equipped 16-710G3 is easy conversion to latest EPA standards and as long as Siemens offers parts, they will stay as is. IF Siemens bails out, THEN expect conversion to "ACE" standards or some other drastic program.

Since the 90MACs are out of warranty, Siemens parts are VERY expensive and hard to come by. Also, Rockwell (who made the ICE system) is on their way out of supporting the 90MAC's meaning parts are difficult to find and expensive. Some units are being converted to FIRE. Ditto the US&S cab signal system, toilet retention systems, etc, etc, etc. Unless you really need it, (and who does with this economy) park it or sell it.

The days of ANY unit lasting 50-75 years on "as built" technology is over. If for absolutely no other reasons, fuel economy, emissions, noise, EPA, and the FRA are going to "kill" every EMD and GE units built from 1980 onward every 25 years or so from build date. The government and simple economics are not going to continue to "grandfather clause" locomotives forever. Does that mean they will all go to the scrap heap? Hardly. Rebuilding will become just that instead of "worn out parts replacing" which has been the practice for the past 30 years.

[Steve F45]

Can someone tell me where the bell is on the SD90Mac? I have looked thru countless pics and have not seen any bell or ebell on the underframe.

[MEC407]

On the SD90MAC convertibles (also known as SD9043MAC), the bell is located between the air tanks, just above the fuel tank:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=222371

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=160742


On the "true" SD90MACs with the "H" engine, as well as the "phase II" SD90MACs, the bell is forward of the fuel and air tanks:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=263630

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=226341

[Steve F45]

can someone tell me what size radiator fans the 90Mac's use?