I heard someone say that at one time and it was some crazy idea that Plainfield was considered for a PATH stop? How would something like that work and how would it have been done?
Railroad Forums
PATH to Plainfield?
- Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).
Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain
Not misinformed. There was indeed a proposal during the 70s or so to extend PATH to Plainfield, using (I assume) the former CNJ local tracks. One route had the PATH running down the NEC as far as Elizabeth and going west from there; another (which might be apocryphal) had PATH running through Bayonne on the traditional CNJ route. AFAIR, it was to operate in conjunction with the CNJ/NJDOT service and not instead of it.
I remember always hearing about this proposal. I only knew of the one via Elizabeth and the CNJ from there. Never knew Bayonne was another.
I-T and everyone:
The PATH described the proposed Plainfield extension in the February 1973 edition of the very-informative (back in the 70s) PATH Newsletter. Described were the extension itself, the proposed link between PC and EL in the Meadowlands (we know it today as Midtown Direct), and a proposal for LIRR service to Kennedy Airport via the old Rockaway Branch.
That Plainfield extension would have directly served Newark Airport and then would have been routed via the CNJ ROW to Plainfield.
The PA had a price tag for these improvements of $650 million—$240M for the Plainfield extension, $150M for the PC-EL connection, and the rest for the LIRR link to JFK—in 1973 dollars. Interesting ideas from the early 70s!
MACTRAXX
The PATH described the proposed Plainfield extension in the February 1973 edition of the very-informative (back in the 70s) PATH Newsletter. Described were the extension itself, the proposed link between PC and EL in the Meadowlands (we know it today as Midtown Direct), and a proposal for LIRR service to Kennedy Airport via the old Rockaway Branch.
That Plainfield extension would have directly served Newark Airport and then would have been routed via the CNJ ROW to Plainfield.
The PA had a price tag for these improvements of $650 million—$240M for the Plainfield extension, $150M for the PC-EL connection, and the rest for the LIRR link to JFK—in 1973 dollars. Interesting ideas from the early 70s!
MACTRAXX
I would be really interesed to see a copy of the February 1973 Path Newsletter(and any others!). Could you post it here or send a link?
I am hoping the newsletter could shine some light on the following.
I had heard a long time ago that the Newark Airport Terminals A,B,C were originally designed for the PATH trains to be located where the MonoRail is now. I'm not sure if this is True, or an Urban Legend, or if the original design just had provisions for a monorail to be located there in the future. Either way it looks like there was definitely a provision for something there.
Sure would make a really nice one seat ride to Mid-Town and the WTC.
Next Stop Morristown
I am hoping the newsletter could shine some light on the following.
I had heard a long time ago that the Newark Airport Terminals A,B,C were originally designed for the PATH trains to be located where the MonoRail is now. I'm not sure if this is True, or an Urban Legend, or if the original design just had provisions for a monorail to be located there in the future. Either way it looks like there was definitely a provision for something there.
Sure would make a really nice one seat ride to Mid-Town and the WTC.
Next Stop Morristown
NextstopMorristown wrote:I would be really interesed to see a copy of the February 1973 Path Newsletter(and any others!). Could you post it here or send a link?When attending college I worked as an engineering intern for the Port Authority summer of 1970 and 1971,. I seem to recall that the design was for the monorail, and not PATH. The new station on the NEC was build leaving space to accomodate a PATH extention (under the footbridge between the NEC platforms and the monorail.)
I am hoping the newsletter could shine some light on the following.
I had heard a long time ago that the Newark Airport Terminals A,B,C were originally designed for the PATH trains to be located where the MonoRail is now. I'm not sure if this is True, or an Urban Legend, or if the original design just had provisions for a monorail to be located there in the future. Either way it looks like there was definitely a provision for something there.
Sure would make a really nice one seat ride to Mid-Town and the WTC.
Next Stop Morristown
~Ken :: Fairmont ex-UP/MP C436 MT-14M1 ::
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
Black River Railroad Historical Trust :: [/url]
How much would a PATH to Plainfield extension cost in today's dollars (2007)? Could something that ambitous be feasible today that would serve Newark Liberty International Airport via the CNJ ROW to Plainfield? Where would the extra stops be past Newark Penn Station to Plainfield besides Liberty and Elizabeth? How long would it take to have the CNJ tracks ready and a 3rd rail electrified for service? If someone could put a link for the CNJ tracks, it would be greatly appreciated.
This plan had a lot of local opposition for two reasons. One is that the CNJ ROW west of Plainfield would've been converted to a busway. The other was that the fear of frequent service to urban areas would lead to the "Bronxification" of the served suburbs.
That Plainfield extension would have directly served Newark Airport and then would have been routed via the CNJ ROW to Plainfield.That's not quite accurate, when I used to work in Downtown Newark in 2002 I went to the Newark Library and found the draft planning documents related to the PATH extension to EWR and further to Plainfield.
The PATH would have linked with what then was known as the ITTS (Intra Terminal Train/Tram service), basically it was a monorail almost exactly what was built at Newark Airport in 1994-1996.
When the Central Terminal Area was built in 1971 they had a ROW built on the terminals for the ITTS, this ROW is where the Newark Airport Airtrain runs today. It took them almost 25 years to actually build the Monorail which was supposed to open in 1973.
The ITTS Monorail would have connected with the PATH train at a rail link station built underneath the McClelen street bridge, closest to Terminal A which was the busiest terminal at the airport at the time. When the Newark Monorail was built in 1996 and the extension to the NEC completed in '01 the rail link station was located where it is today so it could be closer to Terminal C which is the busiest Terminal at EWR today.
After leaving the ITTS Newark Airport station the PATH would have linked up with the CNJ line in Elizabeth where it would have run eventually to Plainfield.
Also in the documents were designs for redesigned PATH cars which had more standard Commuter seating, similar to perhaps the LIRR or Washington Metro.
If you want to see the documents they are at the Newark Public library, take the Light rail there and just find a computer and type in PATH extension to Newark Airport. It's on a shelf.
Great information.
I'm not sure how I originally knew about the proposed PATH extension as I didn't even know PATH existed for another 10 years.
Interesting about the original location of the airport rail station. Important to note that although terminals A and B opened in 1973 and the shell for terminal C was built, terminal C was not completed and occupied until 1988.
Of course the PA proposing these projects was to keep the balance between NJ & NY. What they really wanted was the rail line to JFK. I have a 1973 MTA 10 year plan book (1968-1978 at the half way mark) that mentions the LIRR extension in detail. Always wonderred why it was never built. I'll have to look for the book to see if there is anything about the PATH proposals.
I'm not sure how I originally knew about the proposed PATH extension as I didn't even know PATH existed for another 10 years.
Interesting about the original location of the airport rail station. Important to note that although terminals A and B opened in 1973 and the shell for terminal C was built, terminal C was not completed and occupied until 1988.
Of course the PA proposing these projects was to keep the balance between NJ & NY. What they really wanted was the rail line to JFK. I have a 1973 MTA 10 year plan book (1968-1978 at the half way mark) that mentions the LIRR extension in detail. Always wonderred why it was never built. I'll have to look for the book to see if there is anything about the PATH proposals.
Ok I found the book. Very interesting pull out regional map on the first page. Newark PATH is on there along with PATH to Plainfield. Cost $240 million. Its mentionned in detail in the section dealing with airport expansion (page 65).
JFK is on there to Jamaica along with direct connection (1 seat ride) to LIRR to Penn. Cost - $260 million.
Stewart is on there. Stewart was an MTA airport at the time. Estimated time with gas/electric vehicle to Penn 58 mins. "By 1990 Stewart should handle 36 million passengers."
Republic is on there with high speed LIRR access to Manhattan - again an MTA airport at the time.
There is also a whole section about the development of gas turbine/electric self propelled vehicles (pages 66-68).
JFK is on there to Jamaica along with direct connection (1 seat ride) to LIRR to Penn. Cost - $260 million.
Stewart is on there. Stewart was an MTA airport at the time. Estimated time with gas/electric vehicle to Penn 58 mins. "By 1990 Stewart should handle 36 million passengers."
Republic is on there with high speed LIRR access to Manhattan - again an MTA airport at the time.
There is also a whole section about the development of gas turbine/electric self propelled vehicles (pages 66-68).
Last edited by drewh on Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tom V wrote:Also in the documents were designs for redesigned PATH cars which had more standard Commuter seating, similar to perhaps the LIRR or Washington Metro.Tom, you may not know this, but that is the type of seating PATH had on at least its PA-1 cars (and I think PA-2 and PA-3 also) before they were overhauled.
|=| R. Novosielski |=|
After Conrail started in 1976, I went to the ex-CNJ Boyd tower, in Raritan; not the brick building, with the dispatcher's office in it, but a shack at the east end of yard, with a CTC local machine in it. One day when I was there, a former PRR division operator I had worked for, who was doing consulting work for the PATH, came in with another man. Apparently the PATH was thinking of running to Raritan in place of the CNJ. By coincidence, this former boss had been an official on the H&M.
