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Passage Between 34th/Herald Square and Penn Station?
- Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).
Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain
No, it is definitely under the south side of 33rd street. I took those pictures a few months ago and can personally attest to the exact location of the remaining tunnel segment.
UpperHarlemLine4ever wrote:Actually it was under 32nd St, not 33rd St.Nope! devbeep2 is absolutely correct - it is under the south sidewalk of 33rd St, not 32nd.
Look at where the visible entrance under 6th Ave is - about midway between 34th and 32nd, not all the way down at 32nd by PATH. And as I said earlier (though you'll have to take my word for it since there is no visible trace), the 7th Ave end was outside the 33rd St fare controls on the uptown 1 platform.
BTW, devbeep, how far west does the tiling still exist before it goes to bare cinderblock? From your 4th pic, it looks like the cinderblock section alone is longer than the depth of Gimbels (i.e. Manhattan Mall).
But I'm pretty sure it remained a decade or so later than you suggest - probably closed mid-to-late 70's. It definitely outlived the destruction of Penn Station in '63 and was still open when the present Garden and the abomination now known as Penn Station fully opened in '68. But it was gone before Gimbels closed in '87.
NEC, the cinderblocks were only over a small section on one side.. maybe 10 - 15 feet. I know it must be hard to tell on a picture that small.. please have a closer look.
http://static.flickr.com/45/144741344_166a5313c2_b.jpg
You can see on the left (south) side of the tunnel they go all the way to the end, due to construction of the utility tunnels in the Manhattan Mall (there is even a locked door in that wall that goes to the utility tunnel). On the north side the tile section begins after the recess that I took the first photo next to and ends shortly after.. the tiles just look like cinderblocks because they are so filthy.
Also not visible in the small versions of my photos is a printing date on the TWU Rally wheatpastes.. it says July 1979. If you've never done wheatpastes before, I assure you they don't last very long, even underground.
http://static.flickr.com/45/144741344_166a5313c2_b.jpg
You can see on the left (south) side of the tunnel they go all the way to the end, due to construction of the utility tunnels in the Manhattan Mall (there is even a locked door in that wall that goes to the utility tunnel). On the north side the tile section begins after the recess that I took the first photo next to and ends shortly after.. the tiles just look like cinderblocks because they are so filthy.
Also not visible in the small versions of my photos is a printing date on the TWU Rally wheatpastes.. it says July 1979. If you've never done wheatpastes before, I assure you they don't last very long, even underground.
I just found this thread 3 months late.
I was in high school in NJ in the early 70's and would take EL to
hoboken (the 99-year old DLW dark green(?) MU's with the wicker seats --
remember them!!!
) and then PATH to 33rd (34th?) st to go to
the Garden to watch the Knicks and Rangers.
I then left the area and came back about 15 years ago, but now
take the train direct to Penn Station. I've looked once or twice
for an underground connection from Penn Station to the 6th Ave subway
to use now, which should be the same tunnel as PATH to Penn Station I took in high school, because
when I went to the Garden in high school I had this memory
(20 or 30 years later) of never having to go above ground in NY.
But I never found the tunnel and just thought I was getting old and not
remembering right.
So now I feel much better that it really was there, and don't feel so
old and forgetful! An early Xmas present!
JS
I was in high school in NJ in the early 70's and would take EL to
hoboken (the 99-year old DLW dark green(?) MU's with the wicker seats --
remember them!!!
) and then PATH to 33rd (34th?) st to go to the Garden to watch the Knicks and Rangers.
I then left the area and came back about 15 years ago, but now
take the train direct to Penn Station. I've looked once or twice
for an underground connection from Penn Station to the 6th Ave subway
to use now, which should be the same tunnel as PATH to Penn Station I took in high school, because
when I went to the Garden in high school I had this memory
(20 or 30 years later) of never having to go above ground in NY.
But I never found the tunnel and just thought I was getting old and not
remembering right.
So now I feel much better that it really was there, and don't feel so
old and forgetful! An early Xmas present!
JS
How long is this compared to the tunnel being built downtown? I forget the name of it.
there's quite a bit of construction going on downtown.. are you talking about a pedestrian tunnel or a train tunnel?
asyouare405 wrote:How long is this compared to the tunnel being built downtown? I forget the name of it.Assuming you are talking about the tunnel under Fulton Street to connect the R-W Cortlandt St station, the E WTC station and the PATH station with the Fulton Street Folly . . . the new tunnel will definitely be shorter.
Without pulling up a Manhattan Street map to measure the exact distances, in general blocks uptown in the grid pattern are longer than blocks downtown in the Financial District. And the distance between 6th and 7th Avenues is certainly greater than the distance between Broadway and Church Street.
But as I look back at my old post in this thread about the once-possible longest legal underground walk in Manhattan, from 40th & 6th to 31st & 8th, this piece of the puzzle on Fulton Street will create another quite long legal undergound walk. When the whole project is complete, it should be possible to walk underground from Church & Chambers to William & John - although it will probably require a metrocard swipe to do it - a swipe, but not a ride
I may have to measure those distances . . .
I think I held the speed record through that tunnel for a while. 
I used to take the D train uptown to 34th, then dash through the tunnel to Penn to catch a train home (Hempstead) (1963-1966).
The downward slope around Gimbel's was always a tricky spot to negotiate without going flying head over heels...
I used to take the D train uptown to 34th, then dash through the tunnel to Penn to catch a train home (Hempstead) (1963-1966).The downward slope around Gimbel's was always a tricky spot to negotiate without going flying head over heels...
Pat
There is a reason why this is called the Gimbles Tunnel, and why it is no longer open today:
It is not on city property. It never was city or railroad property.
The property in question is in the vault space (under the sidewalk, yet still on the property) of both Gimbles and the Pennsylvania Hotel. Vaults are where you will usually find sidewalk elevators, stairways, and coal chutes serving the adjacent properties. They are NOT city property even if there is a sidewalk above them.
With the demise of Gimbles, the passageway had to be closed. Neither the city nor the MTA could have taken responsibility for maintaining the passageway even if they had a mind to do so.
Perhaps new owners and new development of the Pennsylvania Hotel site may cause a change in this. from some of the photos above, this looks like a possibility.
It is not on city property. It never was city or railroad property.
The property in question is in the vault space (under the sidewalk, yet still on the property) of both Gimbles and the Pennsylvania Hotel. Vaults are where you will usually find sidewalk elevators, stairways, and coal chutes serving the adjacent properties. They are NOT city property even if there is a sidewalk above them.
With the demise of Gimbles, the passageway had to be closed. Neither the city nor the MTA could have taken responsibility for maintaining the passageway even if they had a mind to do so.
Perhaps new owners and new development of the Pennsylvania Hotel site may cause a change in this. from some of the photos above, this looks like a possibility.
Here is a webpage showing a diagram of the passageway.
http://members.aol.com/bdmnqr2/33passage.html
The webpage is owned by SubChat user "Eric B".
LINK
http://members.aol.com/bdmnqr2/33passage.html
The webpage is owned by SubChat user "Eric B".
LINK
NEC_Rider wrote:If you were a USPS worker the once possible walk could be even longer, ending at 10th ave and 29th street, via penn station and a little known tunnel under 9th ave. connecting farley building and the morgan sorting facility.
But as I look back at my old post in this thread about the once-possible longest legal underground walk in Manhattan, from 40th & 6th to 31st & 8th, this piece of the puzzle on Fulton Street will create another quite long legal undergound walk. When the whole project is complete, it should be possible to walk underground from Church & Chambers to William & John - although it will probably require a metrocard swipe to do it - a swipe, but not a ride
I may have to measure those distances . . .
Some photos of that:
http://ltvsquad.com/Locations/urbanexpl ... php?ID=180