John, I didn't say that I wanted to "dis-improve" them. I was answering a question. I don't know enough about the 251 plus to know either way if that would help.
Dave Becker
Railroad Forums
NYSW -ALCO's to be retired
- Discussion of products from the American Locomotive Company. A web site with current Alco 251 information can be found here: Fairbanks-Morse/Alco 251.
Moderator: Alcoman
Where do the units [that are in service...] usually work these days? I might be in Scranton next month and am contemplating if a trip up to Binghamton is worth it...
WELL!!!
There are certainly lots of rumors flying around here!
The facts are:
ALL the ALCOs are "well worn" to say the least!
NYSW isn't currently in the process of retiring the ALCOs.
Not all of the ALCOs have plus engines.
Only 3 units have computers in place of the blue face cards, including the OOS 3660 (ex 78). All others except 3668 (ex 47) have smaller computers controlling a limited number of functions in addition to a full set of blue cards.
The computers have had much of the French in them translated to English, but that isn't even half the battle. Troubleshooting is 200% easier, however!
The units still have standard govenor and fuel rack. No EFI for them.
The computers applied to the Cartier units are NOT specifically designed for use on a locomotive or any other specific application.
They are however a General Electric product (GE Fanuc to be exact) just NOT made by the GE tranportation Div.
There are three major classes, defined by their capacity / application: the 90-20, 90-30, and 90-70. 90-70s are installed in place of blue cards. 90-20 and 90-30 are applied in addition to blue face cards.
They are a standard industrial microprocessor (Programmable Logic Controller AKA "PLC") and can be applied or retrofitted to most any analog or digital system. They can control the heating system in your house, an electrical grid, a bottling plant, waste water treatment facility, heavy mining equipment, you name it.
These units operate on 24VDC so certain sensors and circuits were reconfigured to accept this new spec.
QCM added lots of difficult and redundant features that would shut the unit down, dump water, prevent loading, etc... if any "conditions" were experienced considered by the QCM people to warrant such action. The programs were written and applied in house by QCM people.
In addition, the system doesn't hold up very well under the HARSH loco conditons (on/off duity cycle, heat, cold, vibration, dirt).
If they were a genuine GE Trans product (super 7 or Bright Star) the elec. side would work great.
The Cartier took a computer system that they were already using on the mining equipment, etc... and tried it out on their locomotives. Frankly I think this was a well intentioned project gone a little too far by some folks with a little too much time on their hands.
I hope this clears up a few things!
BTW... not to give away too much, but there are some interesting things going on behind the scenes for one unit... keep your eyes peeled...
There are certainly lots of rumors flying around here!
The facts are:
ALL the ALCOs are "well worn" to say the least!
NYSW isn't currently in the process of retiring the ALCOs.
Not all of the ALCOs have plus engines.
Only 3 units have computers in place of the blue face cards, including the OOS 3660 (ex 78). All others except 3668 (ex 47) have smaller computers controlling a limited number of functions in addition to a full set of blue cards.
The computers have had much of the French in them translated to English, but that isn't even half the battle. Troubleshooting is 200% easier, however!
The units still have standard govenor and fuel rack. No EFI for them.
The computers applied to the Cartier units are NOT specifically designed for use on a locomotive or any other specific application.
They are however a General Electric product (GE Fanuc to be exact) just NOT made by the GE tranportation Div.
There are three major classes, defined by their capacity / application: the 90-20, 90-30, and 90-70. 90-70s are installed in place of blue cards. 90-20 and 90-30 are applied in addition to blue face cards.
They are a standard industrial microprocessor (Programmable Logic Controller AKA "PLC") and can be applied or retrofitted to most any analog or digital system. They can control the heating system in your house, an electrical grid, a bottling plant, waste water treatment facility, heavy mining equipment, you name it.
These units operate on 24VDC so certain sensors and circuits were reconfigured to accept this new spec.
QCM added lots of difficult and redundant features that would shut the unit down, dump water, prevent loading, etc... if any "conditions" were experienced considered by the QCM people to warrant such action. The programs were written and applied in house by QCM people.
In addition, the system doesn't hold up very well under the HARSH loco conditons (on/off duity cycle, heat, cold, vibration, dirt).
If they were a genuine GE Trans product (super 7 or Bright Star) the elec. side would work great.
The Cartier took a computer system that they were already using on the mining equipment, etc... and tried it out on their locomotives. Frankly I think this was a well intentioned project gone a little too far by some folks with a little too much time on their hands.
I hope this clears up a few things!
BTW... not to give away too much, but there are some interesting things going on behind the scenes for one unit... keep your eyes peeled...
N_DL640A wrote:WELL!!!i've heard one of the alco's is getting a brand spanking new engine and full rebuild...... am i right, what do i win?
BTW... not to give away too much, but there are some interesting things going on behind the scenes for one unit... keep your eyes peeled...
Here is some additional info I received from an unamed insider:
The information you got is not completely true. NYSW is working on one of the units at this time to remove the computer from the locomotive. This is the test to see if it works or not. If it works the rest of the fleet that have them will get them removed as time allows. Not all of the units have the computer system either.Some still have the blue cards that they were built with and still
others have a mix of both. I just replaced a head on one of them today in
Binghamton and it will be going out sometime this weekend on a train. The
railroad is not sure what they are going to do with the locomotives at this
point but it don't seem that they are goin away just yet.
The information you got is not completely true. NYSW is working on one of the units at this time to remove the computer from the locomotive. This is the test to see if it works or not. If it works the rest of the fleet that have them will get them removed as time allows. Not all of the units have the computer system either.Some still have the blue cards that they were built with and still
others have a mix of both. I just replaced a head on one of them today in
Binghamton and it will be going out sometime this weekend on a train. The
railroad is not sure what they are going to do with the locomotives at this
point but it don't seem that they are goin away just yet.
This seems to be a far cry from the rumor spread everywhere that these would be retired.
Dave Becker
Dave Becker
~Dave Becker
Moderator: Fairbanks-Morse Forum
Moderator: Fairbanks-Morse Forum
pablo wrote:This seems to be a far cry from the rumor spread everywhere that these would be retired."NYSW isn't currently in the process of retiring the ALCOs."
Dave Becker
It appears to me that attempts are being made to keep them running alot longer. I am all in favor of that idea. Now to see at least one in NYSW colors......
I think at this point, we can put the rumors to bed. Lets close this discussion with the idea that its seems safe to say that ALCOS ar NOT being retired.