Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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 #121832  by Dieter
 
So, it IS all relative to the Beacon Line.

Why did NYC/PC/CR feel it was more cost effective to maintain the Beacon Line, rather than tear it up, and invest in correcting the clearance problem on the Hudson Division, south of Beacon?

These long freights that travelled the Beacon Line... I'm assuming they came down to the shore and rode the corridor to their destinations?

Dieter.

 #121858  by Noel Weaver
 
At the time Penn Central fixed up the Beacon Branch between Beacon and Hopewell Junction there was still a reasonable amount of freight business in, around and through Cedar Hill (New Haven area). They wanted a easier, shorter and more direct route between Selkirk and Cedar Hill.

Up to the time that this line was fixed up, freight between Selkirk and Cedar Hill was operating over one or both of the following routes.

No. 1, Selkirk-Springfield-Cedar Hill, this route involved either turning the entire train on the wye in order to head south on the former NHRR Springfield Line or making a runaround move which was even worse.

No. 2, Selkirk-Mott Haven-Cedar Hill, this route via the Bronx was almost as bad although the entire train could make the trip without having to runaround the train or turn the entire train on a wye. The problem with this route was the long distance through heavy commuter territory between Poughkeepsie and Mott Haven and between Mott Haven. To make it worse, the crews could not make the trip within twelve hours so the train had to either stop on the south wye at MO or go through the Port Morris Branch and into Oak Point to change crews, neither was a very good move although they did it both ways from time to time.

If the train was to stop at MO, the railroad had to have an "army" of police to watch and guard it in the area.

The Beacon Branch presented a different set of problems but they were not as severe as the problems in Springfield and in New York City (MO). The branch was not in very good shape, had relatively light rail and there were major grades which required much motive power to negiotate the hills especially going from Selkirk to Cedar Hill and this was the direction
where the tonnage was heaviest. The railroad made the decision that the Beacon Branch offered the best of the three different routes available to them.

In my opinion, the Beacon Branch was the best route between Selkirk and Cedar hill.

Noel Weaver
 #170642  by rhallock
 
I was over at Beacon today looking at the branch. As expected it was very rusty. But I spoke with a man who was working at a nearby factory and he told me that Metro North had it "in the works" to run one car trains (RDC or SPV?) on the branch "for tourists". This might just be BS, but I am passing it along just in case anyone knows anything about it.
 #170660  by Tom Curtin
 
I believe [for a variety of reasons] you are experiencing a communications phenomenon common among railfans, in which

"Wouldn't it be nice to see . . . "

becomes

"You know, I heard a crazy rumor that . . . "

becomes

"A train crewman I know gave me some inside skinny that . . . "

becomes

"I think I read an article in the paper that the railroad in considering . . ."

becomes

"The railroad's issuing a formal press release of this great new service is imminent --- any day now . . . "

The above process, or an approximation of it, has been around for decades. The big difference between the 50s and today is the lightning speed of global communication. Whereas the above process would previously take weeks or months," it now takes hours.

 #170679  by Nester
 
Someone (I think it was Dutchess County) did a study that concluded that it was cheaper to add parking to existing stations in the county (Beacon, New Hamburg, Poughkeepsie, Pawling, Wingdale, Wassiac, etc.) to draw additional riders that it would be to re-activate service along the branch.

I don't know if you've ever walked or rode the branch, but it would require some serious reconstruction to accomodate passenger service. In the past few years they've removed many of the crossing arms, which would probably need to be replaced if you planned on running service with any degree of frequency. I don't know what the signalling system is like, but I would imagine that it would also require an upgrade.

Nester

 #170686  by DutchRailnut
 
The part from Hopewell to Beacon would be most likely NOT to see service due to amount of curves ans crossings some of them private.
A study was done a few years back to run trains from Hopewell to Brewster and on to GCT.
MTA claimed not enough riders were available.
The Beacon line has no signal system, its manual block.
The crossing systems were removed since they were turned off anyway.
For a crossing to work you need at least two round trips a week to keep the rails shiny

 #170691  by Nester
 
DutchRailnut wrote: A study was done a few years back to run trains from Hopewell to Brewster and on to GCT.
If that was the plan, that won't happen either. The fastest diesel pull from GCT to Southeast will run about 1h 15m or thereabouts, and at least another 20 minutes (at best, I don't know what the track speed is) or so to Hopewell Jct. For all that effort, a commuter from Hopewell could drive the 20 minutes or so to Beacon or Southeast and get on a train. Without considerable track and signal improvements, that's worse than trying to activate the line from Hopewell to Beacon (which cannot provide service into or out of Beacon without a reverse move or a new station.)

Nester

 #170824  by mkm4
 
Nester wrote:
DutchRailnut wrote: A study was done a few years back to run trains from Hopewell to Brewster and on to GCT.
If that was the plan, that won't happen either. The fastest diesel pull from GCT to Southeast will run about 1h 15m or thereabouts, and at least another 20 minutes (at best, I don't know what the track speed is) or so to Hopewell Jct. For all that effort, a commuter from Hopewell could drive the 20 minutes or so to Beacon or Southeast and get on a train.
Nester
I live in Hopewell Jct. I make the trip to Southeast every day. (It's a few minutes shorter trip to Beacon, but there is better service and less hassles out of Southeast.) Even if they did open a Hopewell Jct Station, I would still leave from Southeast. Why? It would take me almost as long to get to the station as it already takes me to get to Southeast.

etc

 #170877  by Noel Weaver
 
In my opinion, New York State errored badly when the Harlem beyond
Wassaic was abandoned and torn up. There is a huge potential in the
area of Dutchess/Columbia north of Wassaic and it would be very
difficult and expensive to extend the Harlem north of Wassaic.
The state did not want to make the same mistake regarding the Beacon-
Brewster-Danbury section so they bought it and it is essentially rail-
banked although it is occasionaly used for one thing or another.
I don't really see the status of this line changing anytime soon but at least
it is still in place. It would take a lot of work and dollars to up-grade this
line for regular passenger service but not as much nor as difficult as the
area north of Wassaic.
Noel Weaver

 #170882  by DutchRailnut
 
Noel you remember how in 1984 MNCR tried to cut back to Brewster North.
I had bosses that tried to prohibit me from making repairs on RDC's so they would not be atractive to Passengers.

 #170885  by Lackawanna484
 
I guess the next logical endpoint for the Harlem Line would be Millerton, 12 miles or so upline.

The extension from Dover Plains to (new) Wassaic got a huge parking lot, layover yard, and pulled a lot of traffic out of the old village. I'm not sure what would be accomplished for the current commuters from northwest CT, far northern Dutchess and southern Columbia counties other than saving them 15 minutes of driving, and substituting 15 minutes of train.

 #170935  by njtmnrrbuff
 
It might not be a bad idea for service on the Harlem to go as far as Millerton. The question is where. I haven't done too much research on how many people are moving up there. Wassaic is a big parking lot and it attracts many people from all over where NY, Ct, and MA overlap. Aslo, what good would it do to institute MN service on the ex-NH Berkshire Line. I heard that might go to New Milford.

 #170945  by DutchRailnut
 
No service is contemplated on Berkshire line as HRRC will not let CDOT/MNCR on their line.
As far as going further north of Wassaic MNCR's job is to take care of commuter in New York. its CDOT's respoinibility to take care of Connecticut commuters.
If MNCR were to go futher north are Columbia county residents willing to pay taxes to get CT/MA commuters to work ???

etc

 #170989  by Noel Weaver
 
Dutch, I was working a job out of GCT to Brewster and return in the
evening during a good part of 1984. I recall how horrible the Budd Cars
were at the time, they were running a bus often to Dover Plains at the
time.
As for the situation today, I agree that the people in Columbia County
might well be reluctant to subsidize commuters and other passengers who
would cross the state line from Connecticut and Massachusetts,
As for the Berkshire, I think the Housatonic would end up cooperating with
the state but I do not see the state (Connecticut) coming up with the
funds need to restore service on any part of the Berkshire, not even to
New Milford.
Noel Weaver

 #171005  by RedSoxSuck
 
Dutch can probably comment on this, but it seems, at least to me, that the most usefull aspect of the Beacon line as it exist today is the fact that it allows equipment movements between the northern points of 3 lines. In most circumstances, it would probably be quicker to run down to NYC and back up, but if, for whatever reason, a line is wiped out north of NYC, the railroad still has the ability to move equipment in and out. Specifically, if something happens that forces all of the Harlem's tracks to be closed north of Woodlawn, the Beacon line is the ONLY track connection to the outside world north of there, and in such a situation, could come in very handy.
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