Altamont Corridor Express (ACE)

[NH2060]

I would really like to know who designs the livery at each RR for these engines. The new ACE livery on the Chargers has got to be the most uninspiring one yet At least the WSDOT units have that nice big slanted “T” logo and the Brightline units have a lot of color.

[Backshophoss]

Do you have access to the build order sheets at Sacramento?

[Tadman]

I would really like to know who designs the livery at each RR for these engines. The new ACE livery on the Chargers has got to be the most uninspiring one yet

That's the perfect word, uninspiring. Not bad, but on the other hand, if there's a clean slate and someone has to spend the time, why not do it well?

Good thoughts.

[ST Saint]

Has anybody caught this? A new paint scheme seems to have been spotted on a coach that matches better to the new (though uninspired) scheme on the Chargers.

Link to the spot in the video I saw it in:


Creative editing for a side by side comparison.

[Pensyfan19]

Has anybody caught this? A new paint scheme seems to have been spotted on a coach that matches better to the new (though uninspired) scheme on the Chargers.

Link to the spot in the video I saw it in:


Creative editing for a side by side comparison.

Yes... I am aware of the bland new livery of ACE Train´s Bi-level coaches. I think the livery has been around July 2020, but I do not feel it is a worthy investment to repaint their coaches into that uninspiring and bleak grey body. Also, the purple and blue on the end of the Chargers doesn't line up with the repainted coach. Yet another example where the livery of the Chargers doesn't meet up with the coaches it's pulling, just like the Midwest Charger and coaches.

[Backshophoss]

While not the best match,it might be the best the paint shop techs can do at the factory,
The 10 car test set(s) were to max out the chargers while testing,not normal service,at 5 car set the normal max

[lensovet]

do the repainted coaches even have any purple? almost looks like an incomplete job (no logo either…?)

also this video makes it blatantly obvious how abrupt the ditch lights are on these locos. is that a regulation or they are just lazy to make LEDs work the way the old incandescent bulbs did?

[MattW]

Why would anyone go to the complexity of a fade circuit just to make LEDs look the same as incandescent bulbs? That's something else that has to be designed, tested, and can fail.

[lensovet]

Apple has been shipping laptops with fading LED indicators for over a decade and i have never heard of one of those failing.

…because it looks better? by that logic every locomotive should just have the reporting marks of the railroad printed and nothing else on it.

[MattW]

If your Apple LED fails, who cares? A ditch light is a safety appliance and requires a lot more rigorous testing. Your Apple LED also isn't subject to the dirt, water, bumps, vibrations, etc., nor is it handling the power and likely heat that a ditch light does. The paint isn't comparable. No one but a railfan is going to look at a ditch light and think anything about it. The paint scheme however is on display for all to see and can project a powerful image, good or bad.

[electricron]

also this video makes it blatantly obvious how abrupt the ditch lights are on these locos. is that a regulation or they are just lazy to make LEDs work the way the old incandescent bulbs did?

FRA regulations under discussion:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/229.125
(d) Auxiliary lights shall be composed as follows:
(1) Two white auxiliary lights shall be placed at the front of the locomotive to form a triangle with the headlight.
(i) The auxiliary lights shall be at least 36 inches above the top of the rail, except on MU locomotives and control cab locomotives where such placement would compromise the integrity of the car body or be otherwise impractical. Auxiliary lights on such MU locomotives and control cab locomotives shall be at least 24 inches above the top of the rail.
(ii) The auxiliary lights shall be spaced at least 36 inches apart if the vertical distance from the headlight to the horizontal axis of the auxiliary lights is 60 inches or more.
(iii) The auxiliary lights shall be spaced at least 60 inches apart if the vertical distance from the headlight to the horizontal axis of the auxiliary lights is less than 60 inches.
(2) Each auxiliary light shall produce a peak intensity of at least 200,000 candela or shall produce at least 3,000 candela at an angle of 7.5 degrees and at least 400 candela at an angle of 20 degrees from the centerline of the locomotive when the light is aimed parallel to the tracks. Any of the following operative lamps meet the standard set forth in this paragraph: an incandescent PAR-56, 200-watt, 30-volt lamp; a halogen PAR-56, 200-watt, 30-volt lamp; a halogen PAR-56, 350-watt, 75-volt lamp; an incandescent PAR-56, 350-watt, 75-volt lamp; or a single lamp having equivalent intensities at the specified angles.
(3) The auxiliary lights shall be aimed horizontally within 15 degrees of the longitudinal centerline of the locomotive.
(e) Auxiliary lights required by paragraph (d) of this section may be arranged
(1) To burn steadily or
(2) Flash on approach to a crossing.
If the auxiliary lights are arranged to flash;
(i) They shall flash alternately at a rate of at least 40 flashes per minute and at most 180 flashes per minute,
(ii) The railroad's operating rules shall set a standard procedure for use of flashing lights at public highway-rail grade crossings, and
(iii) The flashing feature may be activated automatically, but shall be capable of manual activation and deactivation by the locomotive engineer.
(f) Auxiliary lights required by paragraph (d) of this section shall be continuously illuminated immediately prior to and during movement of the locomotive, except as provided by railroad operating rules, timetable or special instructions, unless such exception is disapproved by FRA.

Did that explain what you wanted to know? To me, it is apparent the FRA did not make a separate set of regulations for the new LEDs lights, I underlined the phrase that allows their use, and that was rather general for encompassing all future lamp technology.

[lensovet]

yep, thanks. indeed looks like the old behavior was just an artifact of how those lamps worked. fwiw, my indoor LEDs also fade out when power is cut — not sure if that's something intentionally implemented by the controller manufacturer (i would be surprised if it was) or something else.

[MattW]

Well...this is RR.net and not ElectricalEngineering.net, but I hope one more explanatory post is ok. The locomotive lights probably run on straight DC from the locomotive's electrical system, just like your car's headlights run on the 12vDC (usually) of the car's electrical system. But the LED light bulbs in your house have power conversion circuits in them to convert the 120vAC (in the U.S.) to whatever voltage is palatable to the actual LED. Usually this circuitry consists of a transformer and some capacitors (and other stuff). Transformers normally step down the voltage, but as they're coils, they also exhibit some inductance. Inductors and capacitors both store electrical energy. The water analogy is that inductors are like massive water wheels, while capacitors are like rubber membranes across the flow of water. So an inductor tends to want to keep the current stable, it takes a while for it to reach maximum current, and when voltage is removed, it takes a while for the current to slow down. A capacitor stores potential energy so it works the opposite, when the power is turned on, it flows quickly initially then slows down as the capacitor is charged, then when the power is turned off, current begins to flow again. The way the components are assembled, they tend to store power (other configurations would not really "store" power). When the supply is cutoff, this combination keeps the power flowing for a little bit of time. You can usually also see this in the power supplies for things like computers and phones if they have an indicator light. They have much the same circuitry just in a different form factor. This was overly simplistic and the last I should say about it on this topic, but I hope that clears things up a little bit.

[lensovet]

Makes sense. Anyway, just an aesthetic thing. I know it's not at the top of anyone's priority list and I get that it needs to work reliably, but this isn't some newfangled tech — laptops use DC too and they had this 2 decades ago.

[MattW]

Again, I somewhat doubt laptops were designed to have their power indicators fade. It happens because the components that make up the power converters store power for a short time. Even if it's just running off the battery, that battery is spitting out anywhere from 12 to 20 volts, parts of the computer only use 1 volt, other parts use 5, etc. so there's DC-DC power conversion happening and capacitors are very much involved to smooth it out so they store a little bit of power which can still run something like an LED for a second. Also non-SSD hard drives require a little bit of power so they can park the read heads in a safe position on the spinning discs so those actually might deliberately store a little bit of power in case the power cable to them is suddenly unplugged.