Railroad Forums 

  • Future of the 4 Former Diesel Lines

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1531517  by septaglizzy27
 
I see that SEPTA is ripping up rails at Fox Chase station and I see that in Bethlehem , they’re building some building on top of the ROW. I hear rumors that they’re plans to restore the Bethlehem , Newtown , and Pottsville Lines. How would they restore when SEPTA lacks the equipment?
 #1531602  by rcthompson04
 
Unless it is on the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission’s 25 year plan it is unlikely to happen. Right now the DVRPC has five regional rail extensions on the plan:

1) Extension of Paoli-Thorndale to Atglen
2) Restoring Media-Elwyn to West Chester
3) Restoring Norristown to Pottstown
4) Restoring Lansdale to Perkasie
5) Restoring NJT Service from West Trenton to northern New Jersey
 #1531609  by septaglizzy27
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:17 pm Unless it is on the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission’s 25 year plan it is unlikely to happen. Right now the DVRPC has five regional rail extensions on the plan:

1) Extension of Paoli-Thorndale to Atglen
2) Restoring Media-Elwyn to West Chester
3) Restoring Norristown to Pottstown
4) Restoring Lansdale to Perkasie
5) Restoring NJT Service from West Trenton to northern New Jersey
Elwyn to West Chester and Norristown to Pottstown seems the most realistic
 #1531644  by mcgrath618
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:17 pm Unless it is on the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission’s 25 year plan it is unlikely to happen. Right now the DVRPC has five regional rail extensions on the plan:

1) Extension of Paoli-Thorndale to Atglen
2) Restoring Media-Elwyn to West Chester
3) Restoring Norristown to Pottstown
4) Restoring Lansdale to Perkasie
5) Restoring NJT Service from West Trenton to northern New Jersey
I'm wondering if they'd just electrify the Bethlehem Branch to Perkasie. It would make sense to lay out the groundwork now for a future return to Quakertown or even Bethlehem.

To that end, I wonder if the plan for Pottstown is to electrify the line. I've heard NS has been more lenient lately about letting them put copper back up, provided they could still get double stacks through AND the middle track was restored.
 #1531648  by septaglizzy27
 
mcgrath618 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:31 am
rcthompson04 wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:17 pm Unless it is on the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission’s 25 year plan it is unlikely to happen. Right now the DVRPC has five regional rail extensions on the plan:

1) Extension of Paoli-Thorndale to Atglen
2) Restoring Media-Elwyn to West Chester
3) Restoring Norristown to Pottstown
4) Restoring Lansdale to Perkasie
5) Restoring NJT Service from West Trenton to northern New Jersey
I'm wondering if they'd just electrify the Bethlehem Branch to Perkasie. It would make sense to lay out the groundwork now for a future return to Quakertown or even Bethlehem.

To that end, I wonder if the plan for Pottstown is to electrify the line. I've heard NS has been more lenient lately about letting them put copper back up, provided they could still get double stacks through AND the middle track was restored.
Pottstown seems more realistic then
 #1531662  by rcthompson04
 
I would rank them in most likely to less likely in this order:

1 - Atglen seems like a no-brainer. Improvements are in the works for Coatesville and Parkesburg stations and the prior interlocking problems that resulted in service being cut back to Downingtown (later restored to Thorndale) appear to have been resolved during the work on the line for the Keystone Service. Going back to Coatesville and Parkesburg are probably going to happen within 5 years. Atglen is not as easy, but the new Park interlocking was designed with the future station at Atglen in mind.

2 - Norristown to Phoenixville is being aggressively pushed the local governments who are doing some of the heavy lifting for SEPTA. The odds of a limited dual-mode peak hour service happening within 5 years seems high. Maybe if it is successful and the money comes along to encourage NS to allow electrification to Phoenixville we will see regular service. I am a little more skeptical of going past Phoenixville though due to the Black Rock Tunnel though. Anything past Phoenixville would probably require dual modes and a limited peak service.

3 - Going to Perkasie seems like a Bucks/Montgomery County version of the Wawa extension. Probably requires both counties to get on board from a monetary perspective.

4 - Going back to West Chester seems to be a battle between cost and impact. I am sure the borough would love it, but would many people still drive to Exton or Malvern instead of going to a station closer to their home. I am about 2 miles from the old West Chester station, but I would likely have a shorter commute if I went to Exton or Malvern still.

5 - West Trenton to North Jersey - LOL
 #1531666  by septaglizzy27
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:06 pm I would rank them in most likely to less likely in this order:

1 - Atglen seems like a no-brainer. Improvements are in the works for Coatesville and Parkesburg stations and the prior interlocking problems that resulted in service being cut back to Downingtown (later restored to Thorndale) appear to have been resolved during the work on the line for the Keystone Service. Going back to Coatesville and Parkesburg are probably going to happen within 5 years. Atglen is not as easy, but the new Park interlocking was designed with the future station at Atglen in mind.

2 - Norristown to Phoenixville is being aggressively pushed the local governments who are doing some of the heavy lifting for SEPTA. The odds of a limited dual-mode peak hour service happening within 5 years seems high. Maybe if it is successful and the money comes along to encourage NS to allow electrification to Phoenixville we will see regular service. I am a little more skeptical of going past Phoenixville though due to the Black Rock Tunnel though. Anything past Phoenixville would probably require dual modes and a limited peak service.

3 - Going to Perkasie seems like a Bucks/Montgomery County version of the Wawa extension. Probably requires both counties to get on board from a monetary perspective.

4 - Going back to West Chester seems to be a battle between cost and impact. I am sure the borough would love it, but would many people still drive to Exton or Malvern instead of going to a station closer to their home. I am about 2 miles from the old West Chester station, but I would likely have a shorter commute if I went to Exton or Malvern still.

5 - West Trenton to North Jersey - LOL
they mean bringing back the West Trenton-Newark Penn section
 #1531694  by MelroseMatt
 
A whole back, a friend and I were talking about Fern Rock (Track 0) to Hoboken via West Trenton as a new home for the ACES equipment. The idea would be to plunk a bar car in the middle of the train and go after the "leasure" market. Service would run Friday, Saturday, Sunday, with trains into late night. Unlike ACES, it wouldn't need an electric engine, this one could use diesel only, in a push-pull setup. We figured there are so many people traveling between Philly and NYC on the various train and bus services, plus people driving, we should be able to convince enough of them to take the fun train to have a shot at breaking even.
 #1531718  by ExCon90
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:06 pm 4 - Going back to West Chester seems to be a battle between cost and impact. I am sure the borough would love it, but would many people still drive to Exton or Malvern instead of going to a station closer to their home. I am about 2 miles from the old West Chester station, but I would likely have a shorter commute if I went to Exton or Malvern still.
For just that reason I'm still not convinced that electrification of the rest of the line to West Chester--let alone the associated track and signal work--is justified; it's just too twisty, and even if they ran express from Media with only one or two intermediate stops--Swarthmore? Secane?--I think you could still beat it by using Exton or Malvern.
(I'd still leave West Trenton to North Jersey in 5th place, even with 4th place vacant.)
 #1531740  by rcthompson04
 
ExCon90 wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:27 pm
rcthompson04 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:06 pm 4 - Going back to West Chester seems to be a battle between cost and impact. I am sure the borough would love it, but would many people still drive to Exton or Malvern instead of going to a station closer to their home. I am about 2 miles from the old West Chester station, but I would likely have a shorter commute if I went to Exton or Malvern still.
For just that reason I'm still not convinced that electrification of the rest of the line to West Chester--let alone the associated track and signal work--is justified; it's just too twisty, and even if they ran express from Media with only one or two intermediate stops--Swarthmore? Secane?--I think you could still beat it by using Exton or Malvern.
(I'd still leave West Trenton to North Jersey in 5th place, even with 4th place vacant.)
A better solution would be improving the bus service from West Chester to Exton. If the bus service was not so poorly timed I would use it as the bus runs 2 blocks from my house.
 #1547767  by Pensyfan19
 
Sounds promising. Hopefully this continues to get support.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... nstruction
A study for efforts to return passenger rail service to Phoenixville, Pa., 28 miles northwest of Philadelphia, estimates such service would generate more than $350 million in benefits over a 30-year period. MontgomeryNews.com reports the study was undertaken under the auspices of a task force by Mayor Peter Urscheler as part of an application for a $3.1 million federal grant for planning and purchase land for a railroad station and related facilities. The largest benefits come from appreciation of property value, travel time savings, and productive time for passengers using the train rather than an automobile. The biggest obstacles to restoring service are heavy use of the rail line through Phoenixville by Norfolk Southern, and a narrow, single-track tunnel built in 1835 which would complicate scheduling or require a costly replacement.
 #1547933  by scratchyX1
 
Black Rock Tunnel is north of phoenixville, Why would trains need to pass through it?
To get turned around on the powerplant spur?
Pensyfan19 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:12 am Sounds promising. Hopefully this continues to get support.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... nstruction
A study for efforts to return passenger rail service to Phoenixville, Pa., 28 miles northwest of Philadelphia, estimates such service would generate more than $350 million in benefits over a 30-year period. MontgomeryNews.com reports the study was undertaken under the auspices of a task force by Mayor Peter Urscheler as part of an application for a $3.1 million federal grant for planning and purchase land for a railroad station and related facilities. The largest benefits come from appreciation of property value, travel time savings, and productive time for passengers using the train rather than an automobile. The biggest obstacles to restoring service are heavy use of the rail line through Phoenixville by Norfolk Southern, and a narrow, single-track tunnel built in 1835 which would complicate scheduling or require a costly replacement.
 #1548015  by rcthompson04
 
scratchyX1 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:28 am Black Rock Tunnel is north of phoenixville, Why would trains need to pass through it?
To get turned around on the powerplant spur?
Pensyfan19 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:12 am Sounds promising. Hopefully this continues to get support.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... nstruction
A study for efforts to return passenger rail service to Phoenixville, Pa., 28 miles northwest of Philadelphia, estimates such service would generate more than $350 million in benefits over a 30-year period. MontgomeryNews.com reports the study was undertaken under the auspices of a task force by Mayor Peter Urscheler as part of an application for a $3.1 million federal grant for planning and purchase land for a railroad station and related facilities. The largest benefits come from appreciation of property value, travel time savings, and productive time for passengers using the train rather than an automobile. The biggest obstacles to restoring service are heavy use of the rail line through Phoenixville by Norfolk Southern, and a narrow, single-track tunnel built in 1835 which would complicate scheduling or require a costly replacement.
Sounds like they are selling this the wrong way... I don't think anyone thinks this is going to Pottstown any time soon. Going past Phoenixville and needing to access the tunnel only matters if you have that unnecessary complication in mind.
 #1559285  by 93r8g7
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:06 pm I would rank them in most likely to less likely in this order:

1 - Atglen seems like a no-brainer. Improvements are in the works for Coatesville and Parkesburg stations and the prior interlocking problems that resulted in service being cut back to Downingtown (later restored to Thorndale) appear to have been resolved during the work on the line for the Keystone Service. Going back to Coatesville and Parkesburg are probably going to happen within 5 years. Atglen is not as easy, but the new Park interlocking was designed with the future station at Atglen in mind.

2 - Norristown to Phoenixville is being aggressively pushed the local governments who are doing some of the heavy lifting for SEPTA. The odds of a limited dual-mode peak hour service happening within 5 years seems high. Maybe if it is successful and the money comes along to encourage NS to allow electrification to Phoenixville we will see regular service. I am a little more skeptical of going past Phoenixville though due to the Black Rock Tunnel though. Anything past Phoenixville would probably require dual modes and a limited peak service.

3 - Going to Perkasie seems like a Bucks/Montgomery County version of the Wawa extension. Probably requires both counties to get on board from a monetary perspective.

4 - Going back to West Chester seems to be a battle between cost and impact. I am sure the borough would love it, but would many people still drive to Exton or Malvern instead of going to a station closer to their home. I am about 2 miles from the old West Chester station, but I would likely have a shorter commute if I went to Exton or Malvern still.

5 - West Trenton to North Jersey - LOL


Reading 2, Only Reading and Phoenixville are run by Lunatics that want to "Partner" with Amtrak, which has no business running that line as Amtrak is a horrible national line that partakes in grifting state and local governments out of exorbident costs in exchange for rail 'service'. Further, Amtrak service would bypass the existing CSX and SEPTA ROW, bypassing the NTC, local bus connections, everything, defying all logic. But this is all expected when you get these "Central Planner" types that got their degrees off a Matchbook.

SEPTA is the best and only way to extend these lines. Goijng with SEPTA isn't an "option" either. It's the only way. Amtrak would be higher in cost, higher in ticket price, and we are trying to get away from subsidizing Amtrak, as opposed to giving amtrak more subsidy - hard earned taxpayer dollars to burn.

Whereas SEPTA could run more service with equipment we already own, and all we'd need are dual-power locamotives and leasing of trackage. We have the personnel and the trackage to get downtown and to other connection points. Why any peon would think going with Amtrak is beyond me - a true testament that we really have more brain-dead planers in our counties and boroughs than I could have imagined. Extending all these lines mentioned above would be simple if these planners would just pull up a SEPTA map and draw the lines out further - it's not much more complex than that.