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  • Amtrak considers extending Wolverine line from Chicago to Toronto via (VIA?) Detroit

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1516853  by Arlington
 
Toronto-Windsor currently has 4 trains per day, with running time of about 4h to 4h30
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/ ... etable.pdf
 #1516856  by rcthompson04
 
Arlington wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:54 am Toronto-Windsor currently has 4 trains per day, with running time of about 4h to 4h30
https://www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/ ... etable.pdf
It is a pretty good schedule considering the travel time by car with 7 stops.

I wonder if you could do Customs/Immigration at Detroit beforehand and save some serious time.
 #1516871  by Tadman
 
This whole idea is "how to make a simple idea very expensive and less workable". Of course this is how they want to do it.

Option A: Run interline trains Chicago-Detroit-Toronto, with handoffs NS-Amtrak-CN. 12 hours worth of problems, and a problem on an eastbound train on NS near Chicago means a late train into Detroit and a really really late train into Toronto. Customs is a long and involved process where the train is stopped at the border.

Option B: interline ticketing, perhaps with a common Detroit station. If the westbound Wolverine hits a snag in East Chicago, the passengers east of Detroit aren't penalized. The other passengers from west of Detroit catch the next train eastbound out of Detroit. Customs is handled at Detroit similar to Vancouver. No trains are stopped and no mains blocked.
 #1516880  by jsmyers
 
Tadman and NIMBYk:

I agree. A transfer at Michigan Central is just what these trains need. It would help increase ridership on the east end of the Wolverine and the West end of the VIA rail service. It would help provide a critical mass for earlier eastbound trains to Detroit and later westbound trains from Detroit.
 #1516889  by CHTT1
 
OK, so here's an idea. Any Detroit-Toronto service through the rail tunnel would require a new Windsor station for VIA, plus the total reconstruction of what is now an industrial track between the CP and the VIA routes.
How about a dedicated bus from Detroit (either the current Amtrak station or a revitalized MC station) to the VIA Windsor station. Immigration and customs are taken care of at the existing Detroit-Windsor road tunnel locations. These station already handle the transit tunnel buses and I imagine any other charter buses that cross the border. No major construction projects for Amtrak, VIA or the Canadian and U.S. governments. Tunnel transfer probably a pain, but the whole thing could probably be done in an hour or slightly more.
 #1516893  by Greg Moore
 
Anytime you have a transfer, let alone two, and onto/off a bus, you're going to reduce the ridership. People don't want to have to deal with that.

I think Amtrak/VIA are better off simply figuring out how to negotiate the tunnel.

Now, that said, it got me thinking that once this service is operational, Amtrak/VIA might as well start looking at Detroit/Buffalo service.
Again, the more trains you can spread your fixed costs (stations, people, etc.) against, the better.

Heck, as much as I loved the LSL for getting to Ann Arbor, if I could have gone straight through Canada, I'd have done that!
 #1516895  by Arlington
 
Michigan Central at the heart of a Ford R&D complex is going to be very powerful. It isn't clear to me whether the service needs to be through-operated (Toronto-Chicago) or just end-to-end connections.
 #1516904  by Tadman
 
I agree there are two sides to the bus/train connection issues.

Clearly the bus would be cheaper. But the two seat changes is a PITA and then opens the bus riders to the possibility of clearing customs at the bridge or tunnel with everybody else rather than the train station. Especially as a business class rider, the priority customs is a real benefit.

Perhaps a dedicated bus with some special customs arrangement and interline ticketing is a good transition or pilot program, with trains to MCS to follow in a year if the bus works even a bit. The bus ride wouldn't be much longer than the connection at a really large airport, which sometimes requires a bus ride, too.
 #1516922  by NS VIA FAN
 
Greg Moore wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:26 pm Now, that said, it got me thinking that once this service is operational, Amtrak/VIA might as well start looking at Detroit/Buffalo service......
Detroit to Buffalo would be great but nearly the entire former New York Central/Penn Central route across southern Ontario (via St. Thomas..15 miles south of London) is now abandoned and track removed. In the 1970’s….this was the route of Amtrak’s ‘Empire State Express’ (later renamed the Niagara Rainbow…..here at St. Thomas in Nov 1977:)

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Today the service would have to operate via Bayview (Hamilton/Aldershot) and currently a New York-Buffalo-Aldershot-Windsor (Detroit) trip is possible. The Maple Leaf arrives in Aldershot at 7:04pm and the train to Windsor leaves at 8:23pm..…arriving in Windsor at 11:44pm. Eastbound to Buffalo and New York the Maple Leaf misses the first train from Windsor at Aldershot by a half-hour but this connection has been available in the past so with some tweaking of schedules.....it could be again.

>>>>

Up until Amtrak Day….CN provided a bus that looped through downtown Detroit connecting with their trains at Windsor (Table 2 (1969) below ) Prior to that….through cars including a Detroit-Toronto Sleeper would be ferried across the river and then attached to CN trains at Windsor for Toronto.

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 #1516933  by Arlington
 
To re-launch Buffalo Detroit via Canada, there's no need to re-activate anything: VIA has everything it needs to operate Niagara-Windsor, including the needed legs at a junction near Hamilton ON.

You can buy a ticket today from Niagara to Windsor
- from Aldershot to Windsor (as part of Toronto-Windsor service).
- from Niagara ON to Aldershot ON

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 #1633089  by Jeff Smith
 
2027? That would be nice: NBC Chicago
Amtrak proposal would connect Chicago to Toronto by closing gap between Windsor and Detroit

A proposal from Amtrak and VIA Rail Canada would connect Chicago and Toronto by rail by closing an existing service gap between Detroit and Windsor, Ontario.

The possible expansion would allow rail service between Chicago and Toronto to begin in 2027, with travel times of just under 10 hours.

The proposal would also connect Toronto and Detroit by rail for the first time since 1967, despite the cities being just 230 miles apart.

In the proposal, service would begin utilizing the Wolverine line that currently connects Chicago to Detroit.
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