Future of Route 15 as a trolley line

[jonnhrr]

I keep seeing rumors on Facebook groups that the operation of the PCC II's on Route 15 may be threatened, I assume because the cars have been unreliable. Is there any truth to these rumors? I would hate to see the last of the non subway-surface lines go.

Jon

[mcgrath618]

I believe that there are worries that they will be replaced along with the K cars when SEPTA redoes the entire trolley network in the 2020s. I have heard nothing about them being unreliable, or that the 15 would go back to a bus route.

[train2]

A Philly local fan recently posted that construction work on I-95 was moving to a new section that overpasses the track to new loop they are using near the casino. It appears that wires would need to be taken down for an extended work project and buses would prevail for the entire route 15. At this point the person doing the original posting admits its a rumor.

I am hoping some SEPTA employees on this sight can give more insight.

[JeffK]

I believe that there are worries that they will be replaced along with the K cars when SEPTA redoes the entire trolley network in the 2020s. I have heard nothing about them being unreliable, or that the 15 would go back to a bus route.

I've heard similar rumors that the K-car replacements would also run on the 15. Presumably that wouldn't preclude mixed operation, but with SEPTA who knows. They may value fleet consistency over whatever draw the PCC-IIs would offer as a quasi-historic line.

[ekt8750]

I believe that there are worries that they will be replaced along with the K cars when SEPTA redoes the entire trolley network in the 2020s. I have heard nothing about them being unreliable, or that the 15 would go back to a bus route.

I've heard similar rumors that the K-car replacements would also run on the 15. Presumably that wouldn't preclude mixed operation, but with SEPTA who knows. They may value fleet consistency over whatever draw the PCC-IIs would offer as a quasi-historic line.

Those aren't just rumors. It's in SEPTA's Capital Budget that the K-Car replacement would include enough cars for the 15.

[R36 Combine Coach]

They may value fleet consistency over whatever draw the PCC-IIs would offer as a quasi-historic line.

If SEPTA is interested in a quasi-historic line, the center city loops should have been retained, for tourists. There were holiday trolleys up to the late 1990s. San Francisco has shown how a historic line along Market Street (the city's main street) has been such a success.

[ExCon90]

That "if" is the most important word in the post. The F (and now also the E) in San Francisco exist because a some interested people hounded the powers-that-be to find the money to get it done. There was also a very motivated and well-funded nonprofit volunteer organization which was able to contribute a lot of sweat equity. In Philadelphia some years ago there was the possibility of developing the then-existing heritage trolley operation on Columbus Blvd. along the riverfront, and if the mayor at that time had wanted it, it could have been made to happen, but without that high a level of support it just didn't. Today the Center City loop would be a natural for the PCCs if the motivation--and money--were there. The bygone holiday operation was made possible by donations from Philadelphia business organizations who did it for PR and goodwill.

[JimBoylan]

http://www.95revive.com/your-95/commuti ... THbs1pTpM4

Jul 05, 2019
Westbound Girard Avenue between Richmond Street and Aramingo Avenue at the Interstate 95 Girard Avenue Interchange in Philadelphia will be closed on Monday through Friday, July 8-12, from 7:00 AM to 3:00 PM for installation of overhead catenary wires for the Route 15 trolley line, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PennDOT) announced today.
Westbound Girard Avenue through traffic will be detoured south on Delaware Avenue, then right on Frankford Avenue back to Girard Avenue.

[rcthompson04]

Those aren't just rumors. It's in SEPTA's Capital Budget that the K-Car replacement would include enough cars for the 15.

That is what the Port Authority did when it phased out its PCCs.

[JimBoylan]

There's a pile of new T rail on the Northeast corner of Richmond & Indiana Sts. The old rai is still in the street, peeking through the potholes.

[MelroseMatt]

Anyone hear any updates on the overhead wire work? I haven't seen any PCC cars on the route 15 since June (3 weeks ago).

[ekt8750]

Anyone hear any updates on the overhead wire work? I haven't seen any PCC cars on the route 15 since June (3 weeks ago).

There's construction on the line around Girard College that's supposed to last til next week.

[Myrtone]

Apparently much of route 15 runs on a wide avenue with a dedicated lane than manually steered vehicles may only enter for left turns, are they required to yield trolleys? In other words, only use that lane to turn left if they don't delay them.
Also, stops on that wide avenue (as I have seen in photos) already have platforms, but I have read that the platforms aren't wide enough to meet the requirements for accessibility. Since the platforms tend not to be directly opposite each other, could there be room made for wider platforms simply by slewing the tracks around staggered platforms?

[ekt8750]

Apparently much of route 15 runs on a wide avenue with a dedicated lane than manually steered vehicles may only enter for left turns, are they required to yield trolleys? In other words, only use that lane to turn left if they don't delay them.
Also, stops on that wide avenue (as I have seen in photos) already have platforms, but I have read that the platforms aren't wide enough to meet the requirements for accessibility. Since the platforms tend not to be directly opposite each other, could there be room made for wider platforms simply by slewing the tracks around staggered platforms?

Right now most of the dedicated trolley lanes on Girard Av do have allowances for left turn lanes at intersections. Cars do have to yield to trolleys though.

That said the 15 is a part of the low floor LRV order whenever that happens and as such will be rebuilt and modernized along with the Subways Surface lines to accommodate the low floors and the benefits they bring. My guess is Girard Av east of Broad will get a full private ROW down the median with full platformed stations with access to the sidewalks via walkways and some stops consolidated as a result.

We did a whole thread on modernizing the network last year that you can view here: http://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=166715

[liftedjeep]

-New track is currently being laid along Richmond Street (which is closed to traffic). I crossed the newly installed Allegheny Avenue "grade crossing" this afternoon (10/15) and was able to get a few photos.

Looking south along Richmond Street:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5207057

Allegheny Avenue crossing, looking north:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5207059

Ben