Railroad Forums 

  • Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1511210  by Dick H
 
#680 has been selling out to Boston at least three days a week in recent weeks.
#685 and/or #687 have also been selling out leaving Boston on numerous days'
lately. Some of these sellouts are likely related to late in the school year
field trips to various venues in Boston.

Also, weekday highway traffic into Boston has been a nightmare on numerous
mornings as of late. NECN reported that is was 89 minutes from the NH State
Line to downtown Boston this AM.
 #1511229  by gokeefe
 
Traffic like that is going to make "Travel by Train" quite attractive. Thankfully there are plenty of capital projects in progress that should continue to support good OTP.
 #1511245  by MEC407
 
sicariis wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:21 pm Or if NNEPRA deems that number to be too high, then maybe 680 becomes disembark only at HHL.
That would be one option, but my suspicion is that the Boston commuters who board at Haverhill are a small cash cow (cash calf?) for NNEPRA, considering that it costs NNEPRA virtually nothing to stop there and let those riders on.

I was wondering the same thing as you re: why the couple didn't switch to commuter rail, but I suspect their point of view is "Look, we're paying big bucks for these monthly passes because we want the added comfort of Amtrak rolling stock... and if we're paying those big bucks, we damn well have a right to a seat, not a space on the floor... so we're gonna make a stink about this because it's the principle of the thing." Honestly I'd probably do the same thing if I were in their shoes. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars a month to sit on the floor. If NNEPRA can't fix that, then they probably shouldn't sell monthly passes to Haverhill riders... but the question is, will they give up that cash calf or will they keep doing it and hope that some people will prefer the floor of an Amtrak car over the seat of a T car?
 #1511251  by arthur d.
 
Its always the pass riders that make the biggest stink isn't it? We used to have one that rode to and from the city every day from EXR. 680/685. She was of the opinion that it was her god given right to board early and occupy a table in the cafe with 3 other old hens all the way to EXR. because by god, "we are paying for those seats!"
Suck it up and take the T lady. You're gonna need the money you'll save.
 #1511286  by Trinnau
 
MEC407 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:00 pm"Look, we're paying big bucks for these monthly passes because we want the added comfort of Amtrak rolling stock... and if we're paying those big bucks, we damn well have a right to a seat, not a space on the floor... so we're gonna make a stink about this because it's the principle of the thing."
From their respective websites,
Amtrak July 2019 Monthly Pass HHL-BON: $319
MBTA July 2019 Zone 7 Pass (HHL): $360 (was $336.50 this month, MBTA fares are going up next month).

They aren't even charging a premium for the "Amtrak comfort". No wonder Amtrak is feeling the pinch. They could make it even more of a cash cow if they wanted, or go drop-off only and probably fill the seats with riders from further out. I bet they'd still fill the seats at $400 out of HHL.
 #1511292  by MEC407
 
That is very interesting. I had always been under the impression that the MBTA monthly pass was less than the Downeaster monthly pass. Now I'm just confused. Why would NNEPRA charge less than the T? Why would the T allow NNEPRA to charge less than they do?
 #1511293  by Cowford
 
Why would NNEPRA charge less than the T?


I asked that question on here 1-2 years ago. Not only is the cost less, the transit time is substantially better as there is only one intermediate stop. NNEPRA should not be offering monthly passes there.
 #1511304  by b&m 1566
 
MEC407 wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:00 pm
sicariis wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:21 pm Or if NNEPRA deems that number to be too high, then maybe 680 becomes disembark only at HHL.
That would be one option, but my suspicion is that the Boston commuters who board at Haverhill are a small cash cow (cash calf?) for NNEPRA, considering that it costs NNEPRA virtually nothing to stop there and let those riders on.

I was wondering the same thing as you re: why the couple didn't switch to commuter rail, but I suspect their point of view is "Look, we're paying big bucks for these monthly passes because we want the added comfort of Amtrak rolling stock... and if we're paying those big bucks, we damn well have a right to a seat, not a space on the floor... so we're gonna make a stink about this because it's the principle of the thing." Honestly I'd probably do the same thing if I were in their shoes. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars a month to sit on the floor. If NNEPRA can't fix that, then they probably shouldn't sell monthly passes to Haverhill riders... but the question is, will they give up that cash calf or will they keep doing it and hope that some people will prefer the floor of an Amtrak car over the seat of a T car?
Is it time to add another car to the Downeaster? Would this solve the problem?
 #1511318  by MEC407
 
It would solve the problem of Mr. & Mrs. Haverhill having to sit on the floor, but I suspect it would not be cost effective, even if NNEPRA raised their monthly pass prices to match or slightly exceed the cost of a T pass. You'd be adding 80-something seats to accommodate a much smaller number of people who board in HHL to go to BON. I'm not sure what the actual number is, but I know it's not enough to justify the cost of an additional car.

There may come a time when the train is consistently standing-room-only by the time it reaches Durham-UNH, and when that happens, I would expect NNEPRA to add another car. But I don't think it'll happen before then.
 #1511319  by Rockingham Racer
 
arthur d. wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:06 am Its always the pass riders that make the biggest stink isn't it? We used to have one that rode to and from the city every day from EXR. 680/685. She was of the opinion that it was her god given right to board early and occupy a table in the cafe with 3 other old hens all the way to EXR. because by god, "we are paying for those seats!"
Suck it up and take the T lady. You're gonna need the money you'll save.
The problem with that, Arthur, is that the T does not go to Exeter. Here's the real question: is this a commuter service or not? If it's not, then the D stops in T territory are the answer. If it is, it's up to NNEPRA to provide enough seats to accomodate those commuters whom some seem to think are a "cash cow". You can't have it both ways.
 #1511320  by Rockingham Racer
 
Cowford wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:20 pm
Why would NNEPRA charge less than the T?


I asked that question on here 1-2 years ago. Not only is the cost less, the transit time is substantially better as there is only one intermediate stop. NNEPRA should not be offering monthly passes there.

This is definitely a contributing factor that leads to overcrowding. And they are bringing the cost of the pass to be "more in line" with the cost of the T pass. The cost should be the same, or even more, that the cost of the T pass.
 #1511324  by nomis
 
So $320/mo gets you a single departure for AM Rush and two departures in the PM rush. Yet $360 will get you on 5 AM departures (two of which have limited stops). In the evening, you also have five departures to choose from (one with limited stops).

The savings is tangible, but only if your day will allow a commuter into work by 8:30 am & hope you don't have to say late.
 #1511331  by gokeefe
 
Rockingham Racer wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:02 pmThe problem with that, Arthur, is that the T does not go to Exeter. Here's the real question: is this a commuter service or not? If it's not, then the D stops in T territory are the answer. If it is, it's up to NNEPRA to provide enough seats to accomodate those commuters whom some seem to think are a "cash cow". You can't have it both ways.
The Downeaster is in fact considered a commuter service for certain purposes (FTA funding). I don't know if the FTA funding requires certain passes to be sold. I do know it has potential effects on fare classes that must be offered (senior discount is one example).

The question at hand becomes more like "How often are seats unavailable?". Regardless, it's a good problem to have and it says a lot about how far the service has come.
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