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  • Berkshire Flyer: Pittsfield - New York City Service via Albany

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1502358  by Arlington
 
Greg Moore wrote:Hmm, if only there was a site that you could use to look up Amtrak prices... one where you could select, a set of city pairs, and a time and date...

Plugging such data into such a mythical site gets back a variety of costs, ranging from $45-$63 dollars (for value fairs) and $67-$85 for business class
Sadly it's impossible to tell through your cloud of snark whether you actually looked up Summer Friday afternoons, booked, not 4 months in advance, but more like one plans a June weekend in late May.

I had hoped that someone with a feel for summer Friday weekend trips to Albany might offer some insight.

same goes for bus fares I don't think February prices give us insight to what people's summer weekend getaway options are.
 #1502364  by Greg Moore
 
Someone did. I did.
First of all, a lot of the target audience for this route would not be booking a June weekend in May, but would be doing so weeks or months in advance. You underestimate the number of weekenders in the area.
That said, booking 4 months in advance gives a "best case" scenario in terms of pricing. If you want an idea of what pricing a week or two in advance, you can get that now. There's really not in my experience a summer premium.

My point is, that the prices suggested aren't out of the ordinary at all. And then said suggesting only a $2 premium for an extra hour of travel really isn't fiscally sound, which is surprising coming from one who generally suggesting Amtrak has to be more fiscally responsible.
 #1502368  by Arlington
 
Greg Moore wrote:My point is, that the prices suggested aren't out of the ordinary at all..

So, directly put, what would you say is a good estimate of the typical fare NYP-ALB for a Summer Friday PM Northbound, by people buying it the "typical" time in advance for such summer trips? $45 to $63 is a big range vs the articles single "$75" number.

In the end, the problem is a lot like the problem NNEPRA had with the considered-and-rejected Downeaster summer weekend extension to Rockland:
1) If the current route sells out, the extension must either
- add a section, but then all other sections will have emptied at their usual termnius and you run the whole rest of the train empty even though the new coach is full
- Extension riders must outbid a current customer to get their seat (politically painful, and expensive for ticket prices, since each "new" PIT customer would squeeze an existing ALB customer off. In this case, yes, a $2 premium would kill the economics.

2) If the current train happens to have many empty seats--like half-empty--then that's a huge win since you just fill them with as people who'd want to go NYP-PIT, and it runs full to ALB and half-full to PIT.

3) But If the current train has a small number of empty seats it probably looks too much like #1...the only seats occupied ALB-PIT will be those that'd have been previously empty NYP-ALB.
Greg Moore wrote:And then said suggesting only a $2 premium for an extra hour of travel really isn't fiscally sound, which is surprising coming from one who generally suggesting Amtrak has to be more fiscally responsible.
Under PRIIA, Amtrak is going to charge MA to operate the extension, and MA will take most of the business risk of a $2 premium. Anything Mass attempts is going to be a win for Amtrak, unless Mass is so stupid as to insist that PIT fares be BELOW ALB fares, in which case ALB people will just buy a PIT ticket, get off early, and Mass' money will have been entirely wasted.
 #1502422  by Greg Moore
 
I think $75 is a fairly fair price, especially if that's the walk up price.
I suspect we're not seeing the entire pricing structure at this time (it's over a year out of course) so I suspect we'll see a $10-$15 premium.

Which, for the target crowd, isn't bad at all.
It's not as cheap as the bus (and probably a bit slower) but that demographic is more towards the college student, recent grad who doesn't have much money. And they're not going to be the ones working in the city summering in the Berkshires.

The demographic here is the one that has some flexibility in hours (hence the early leave time on Friday) and extra money and value comfort and the convenience of a single-seat ride to the Berkshires.
The real key will definitely be what's available at the other end: enough, bus, taxi, Uber, Lyft. I suspect too some of the demographic will include "other partner who doesn't go to the city, and hence has a car available."

I have a lot of hope for this service, and do hope NYS would get on board with a stop in Chatham, it's a natural addition.

I also think ultimately a quick stop at the state line might be a worthy addition. While traditionally I don't think it was ever a stop there, the junction of Rte 22 and the NYS Thruway/Mass Pike there provide an obvious pick up/drop off spot for access to other parts of the Berkshires (such as West Stockbridge, etc.)
 #1502425  by njtmnrrbuff
 
While $75 for a one way ticket might be a little steep, it's not terrible. Many people who are vacationing in the Berkshires can probably afford the extra money for a direct seasonal train to Pittsfield. If you don't like the fare and still want to take an Amtrak train, then get off Amtrak in Rennselaer or Hudson. Many people will still probably be doing that. I know in the short term, I may have a trip or two planned to the Berkshires-Great Barrington. I might also, on one of the trips, ride the Berkshire Scenic RR out of N. Adams. Depending on what the scenarios for where I will be will depend on where I will get off. I'm thinking if there are buses that run from Pittsfield to N. Adams, then I will take the train to Pittsfield. If there is a bus from ALB, then I might also just stick with that.

It would be nice to have an infill stop for the seasonal service in or around Chatham. It's not just the Berkshires where people spend summer weekends. People might rent houses just over the NY/MA State Line along I-90 and they could benefit from the seasonal train.
 #1596518  by STrRedWolf
 
So this was floated around various local Boston news:

Amtrak: Berkshire Flyer Passenger Train Service starting July 8th

In short: weekend (Friday up, Sunday back) service up to the Berkshires from NY Penn up to Albany and then reversing over CSX track a-la Lake Shore Limited to Pittsfield, MA.

Interesting... but then someone pointed out the Housatonic Railroad...

Housatonic RR Passenger Service

In short: NY Grand Central to Danbury and Pittsfield.

Pittsfield is going to need more station!
 #1596534  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Oh sure hey; and I'm going to take The Berkshire back to my 60th next month; should have been held last year, at SKS, getting off at Woodrow and hiking "up The Hill" to School!!!!

But those photos sure reminded me of "how things were back in my day"; they are authentic.
STrRedWolf wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:23 am
Housatonic RR Passenger Service
 #1596535  by NaugyRR
 
Hey Everyone,

My father texted me about this last night and it popped into my news feed this morning. I remember reading a rumor about it on here awhile back but kind of forgot about it lol. Since it's official now, I figured it's deserving of its own thread.

Amtrak is planning on running a pilot seasonal service from NYP to Pittsfield dubbed the "The Berkshire Flyer", starting July 8th through the Summer. Per Amtrak's press release...
"The Berkshire Flyer will depart from New York Penn Station at 3:16 p.m. on Fridays and arrive at Joseph Scelsi Intermodal Transportation Center, 1 Columbus Ave, Pittsfield at 7:12 p.m. The train will make all the intermediate station stops as the typical Amtrak Empire Service train does on Fridays, which include Yonkers, NY, Croton-Harmon, NY, Poughkeepsie, NY, Rhinecliff, NY, Hudson, NY, and Albany-Rensselaer Station. The Sunday return trip, making all the same station stops, will depart Pittsfield at 3:00 p.m. and arrive in New York at 7:05 p.m."
https://media.amtrak.com/2022/04/berksh ... ns-july-8/

Do any of the ALB-based crew on here know how they're planning to handle the move on and off the B&A? I'm guessing a power exchange a-la 449/448? I feel like top and tailing the train would be a waste of power.
 #1596536  by NaugyRR
 
Oh crap, sorry Wolf, I didn't see this when I just posted my own. That's my bad.

Mods can we please merge the two threads?
 #1596606  by Greg Moore
 
Adding/dropping power should not be too bad. One of the upgrades of the station trackage a few years back was adding a pocket track for engine changes and the like.

But that said, given that it's only running weekends, I can also see them running an engine at either end (since they won't need as many during the weekends).

That said, a perfect choice for a trainset with a cab car when they become available.

I'll be curious to see how well this does. It's definitely longer than driving, especially because of having to go to Albany first. (Future plans include adding bypass from the Hudson line up to the CSX line just south of the bridge. This would cut out Albany, but save a lot of time).

As for the Housatonic, I'd LOVE to see this happen, but a lot of that is a wish and a dream (and the owners trying to milk NYS for more money). And all those plans are to GCT and are unlikely to involve Amtrak in any way.
 #1596612  by daybeers
 
Greg Moore wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:12 pm That said, a perfect choice for a trainset with a cab car when they become available.

As for the Housatonic, I'd LOVE to see this happen, but a lot of that is a wish and a dream (and the owners trying to milk NYS for more money). And all those plans are to GCT and are unlikely to involve Amtrak in any way.
Amtrak doesn't have spare cab cars and I don't see any freeing up until the Amfleet I replacements start appearing which will be at least another few years.

The Danbury-Pittsfield route needs to happen. So much potential in those towns that need revitalization.

I think this service might flop due to the weekend focus. Ultimate solution IMO is GCT-Danbury-Pittsfield and NYP-Albany with frequent ALB-BOS service to connect to Pittsfield from, say, POU. And the Hudson-Harlem Maybrook Line connector.
 #1596624  by Railjunkie
 
NaugyRR wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:16 am Hey Everyone,

My father texted me about this last night and it popped into my news feed this morning. I remember reading a rumor about it on here awhile back but kind of forgot about it lol. Since it's official now, I figured it's deserving of its own thread.

Amtrak is planning on running a pilot seasonal service from NYP to Pittsfield dubbed the "The Berkshire Flyer", starting July 8th through the Summer. Per Amtrak's press release...
"The Berkshire Flyer will depart from New York Penn Station at 3:16 p.m. on Fridays and arrive at Joseph Scelsi Intermodal Transportation Center, 1 Columbus Ave, Pittsfield at 7:12 p.m. The train will make all the intermediate station stops as the typical Amtrak Empire Service train does on Fridays, which include Yonkers, NY, Croton-Harmon, NY, Poughkeepsie, NY, Rhinecliff, NY, Hudson, NY, and Albany-Rensselaer Station. The Sunday return trip, making all the same station stops, will depart Pittsfield at 3:00 p.m. and arrive in New York at 7:05 p.m."
https://media.amtrak.com/2022/04/berksh ... ns-july-8/

Do any of the ALB-based crew on here know how they're planning to handle the move on and off the B&A? I'm guessing a power exchange a-la 449/448? I feel like top and tailing the train would be a waste of power.
My number came up and over stay-cation I caught covid like Ive said all along its not if but when. Anyway, once I get back to work I will be on third trick yard job for a bit and it will be easy enough to find out how they intend on handling this.
Normal move would be come off pocket 5 with a engine, tie onto the rear of the train thus making it the head end, fuel, air test and go. On the flip cut the west facing engine off run it to the middle towards the shop, air test, fuel and go. Of course its Albany and moves change like the wind. I just want to know where they are getting the extra equipment from we barely have enough to run the current service.

Just thinking about times for 449 if its on time arrives in Albany 610pm. The Post Road to CP187 were Amtrak ties into CSX is single track and on up to Chatham CP176. That is 20 miles of single track for those of you keeping score, its slow too. The only place for a meet is Chatham then its single track to PIT yet again. Its a little quicker if your not following or waiting for QXXX. 716pm into PIT?? everything is going to have to work perfectly and that includes CSX.
 #1596630  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Messrs. Daybeers and Moore, Perhaps when your "dream" becomes reality, and you have brought pressure to bear to have Woodrow become a stop, perhaps you will choose to hike "up The Hill" to SKS; maybe my cremated remains can join you!!! (roundly one third of my Class of '61 is now deceased; to read the Honor Roll during the '16 Memorial Service fell to me. Someone else's turn this time).

Of interest, Woodrow, was located at the intersection of the tracks and Bulls Bridge Road. It was discontinued as a stop during '47, but the School sought regulatory relief so it remained both in the Tariff and when School recessed or convened, The Berkshire made a stop there. Apparently, that continued until A-Day when 141-144 made its last.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #1596631  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Railjunkie wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:41 am My number came up and over stay-cation I caught COVID. Like I've said all along its not if but when. Anyway, once I get back to work I will be on third trick yard job for a bit and it will be easy enough to find out how they intend on handling this.
Mr. Junkie, so that's how Amtrak treats an employee, who needs to get his bodily rhythms back in shape, returning from an illness?

Where's your Amtrak "Dr. Quackenbush" up there when you need him?

GBN - so far so good; antigen Negative yesterday; after returning from Indianapolis next Sunday (friends, hotel, two restaurants), I'll go in for a PCR.
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