Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

[mtuandrew]

It’s a bit of a shame that Amtrak partnered with Dunkin’ Donuts for coffee. They make a decent cup (especially Dunkin’ Dark) and that’s totally fine for coffee drinkers, but their food & beverage products aren’t seen as up-market as Starbucks or Peet’s. For instance, Dunkin’ charges $1 for essentially the same old-fashioned donut that retails for $2 at Starbucks, $2 for the same iced coffee that sells for $3.50, and $4 for a frappe that costs $6 at Starbucks. Good for the consumer, but bad for Amtrak’s margins. Same thing for beer - I’d rather have a regional beer and pay twice as much as for a Michelob.

Also, DD espresso is trash

[bostontrainguy]

It’s a bit of a shame that Amtrak partnered with Dunkin’ Donuts for coffee. They make a decent cup (especially Dunkin’ Dark) and that’s totally fine for coffee drinkers, but their food & beverage products aren’t seen as up-market as Starbucks or Peet’s. For instance, Dunkin’ charges $1 for essentially the same old-fashioned donut that retails for $2 at Starbucks, $2 for the same iced coffee that sells for $3.50, and $4 for a frappe that costs $6 at Starbucks. Good for the consumer, but bad for Amtrak’s margins. Same thing for beer - I’d rather have a regional beer and pay twice as much as for a Michelob.

Also, DD espresso is trash

I know they have Dunkin Donuts coffee, which I like, but didn't know they had any of their pastries. Do they?

[mtuandrew]

I know they have Dunkin Donuts coffee, which I like, but didn't know they had any of their pastries. Do they?

Now that you mention it, I don’t think they do, but I haven’t ridden in a while. They’re still missing out on higher-margin stuff though!

[dumpster.penguin]

On a recent Capitol Ltd round trip - my first experience with the boxed meals - I overheard a couple of passengers effusively praise the new boxed dinner. On the other hand, other passengers glumly left certain courses for the trash. Announcements reminded coach passengers they must no longer enter the diner.

Altogether, the strategy seems three-pronged. First, pare the hot-meal constituency down to an elite. Ostracized coach and non-omnivore sleeper travelers will not defend meal service they're locked out of from attack by Congress. Second, weaken the constituency. Offend liberals (no community), tree-huggers (so much visible waste of packaging and food), taxpayers (idle union-labor employee prominently posted to supervise the non-diner diner). Third, transform the service to something that can be described crisply in glowing terms and, yet, whose elimination will seem like progress. Imagine: "Only __% of guests partook of the modern, cuisine-quality, chef-conceived meals. Many travelers have told us they prefer to pack their own picnics. Ending the under-utilized meal service will save 40 million hectares of bamboo forest annually, which would otherwise have gone to landfills."

[mtuandrew]

Sounds about right. Don’t forget offending conservative older folks (also won’t defend a diner that won’t serve food like it did in the past.)

I don’t think it’s the wise move long-term, but it’s what One Mass is pursuing.

[gokeefe]

If this leads to Amtrak balancing their books or an entire route suddenly covering it's costs I would say they did the right thing. Pretty hard to justify shutting down a route when they aren't losing money. Congress, especially the Senate staff, won't allow it.

[mtuandrew]

I just heard a radio interview by Michael Lewis, author of The Fifth Risk. He’s been tracking the executive agencies under Trump, particularly the lesser-scrutinized ones like Commerce and Energy, and his conclusion is twofold: 1) the vast majority of political appointees under this administration have either been stubbornly but benignly ignorant of their agency’s role, or have been actively fighting against them for years and are now the foxes in the chicken coop, and 2) to a person, this class of appointee has been solely focused on short-term gain and entirely oblivious to long-term effectiveness and stability. That is, even if you are a proponent of business, the states, and the individual people taking on certain responsibilities that the Federal Government now carries, these actions are creating a vacuum that can’t be filled by those other entities.

I don’t think Richard Anderson is out to sabotage Amtrak; he wouldn’t be trying to push corridors if he were actively kill off the corporation. I do think he is focused on the major short-term changes demanded by a president with a “change everything” mentality, a short attention span, and a love for seeing his name on big things. Killing off the dining car is a change that is certainly expedient and helps Amtrak balance its F&B budget to Congressional satisfaction. However, it may kill experimentation with passenger amenities too, and in the long term will make Amtrak a less attractive travel option.

[gokeefe]

I remain thoroughly unconvinced that cutbacks in the top tier food service options (while keeping the lounge/cafe) will negatively affect ridership.

Amtrak is a transportation company. Transportation is the primary product and theirs is better by far than almost any other mass market alternative. It may cost more but many are willing to pay for it.

[Backshophoss]

The"Panera Bread" Food service model is not working,there's more negative feedback than the rare positive feedback,too much waste on
packaging,and too many times of "Sorry,we ran out of that item" at the time the passenger makes a chose at the table.
Also not allowing Biz class and Coach access to the diner, on the trains converted to this mistake of on board food service.
While it might make the "Micascope" crowd of critters in DC happy,this will come back to haunt Amtrak with low ridership counts in the future.

A combined Arbys+ Sonic with Subway type "Fast Food" might have been better accepted by the passengers

[Ken W2KB]

I just heard a radio interview by Michael Lewis, author of The Fifth Risk. He’s been tracking the executive agencies under Trump, particularly the lesser-scrutinized ones like Commerce and Energy, and his conclusion is twofold: 1) the vast majority of political appointees under this administration have either been stubbornly but benignly ignorant of their agency’s role, or have been actively fighting against them for years and are now the foxes in the chicken coop, and 2) to a person, this class of appointee has been solely focused on short-term gain and entirely oblivious to long-term effectiveness and stability. That is, even if you are a proponent of business, the states, and the individual people taking on certain responsibilities that the Federal Government now carries, these actions are creating a vacuum that can’t be filled by those other entities.

Interesting point of view, but within the Department of Energy, the very important and powerful regulatory agency with which I am very familiar, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, has had to date three of its five commissioners appointed by President Trump and confirmed by the Senate. The background and knowledge of all three appointees reflect both a knowledge of the industries that they regulate as well as representing diverse interests which were often not in alignment as to desired policy. These are the biographies of the three: https://www.ferc.gov/about/com-mem/chat ... 7830503861 , https://www.ferc.gov/about/com-mem/glic ... 7830503861 , https://www.ferc.gov/about/com-mem/mcin ... 7830503861. The fourth Commissioner (one Commissioner position is currently vacant) was appointed by President Obama and also has extensive energy industry experience as a senior executive with a large electric utility company https://www.ferc.gov/about/com-mem/lafl ... 7830503861

[mtuandrew]

The"Panera Bread" Food service model is not working,there's more negative feedback than the rare positive feedback,too much waste on
packaging,and too many times of "Sorry,we ran out of that item" at the time the passenger makes a chose at the table.
Also not allowing Biz class and Coach access to the diner, on the trains converted to this mistake of on board food service.
While it might make the "Micascope" crowd of critters in DC happy,this will come back to haunt Amtrak with low ridership counts in the future.

A combined Arbys+ Sonic with Subway type "Fast Food" might have been better accepted by the passengers

But that’s the problem, it isn’t the Panera model, with parcooked food waiting to be purchased, heated, and served as different optional courses of a meal. It’s a glorified hotel continental breakfast, free with purchase of accommodations but totally unavailable to anyone outside the hotel. If Anderson has been able to intervene before the V-II diners were complete but after they were ordered, I’m sure he would have changed their layout to have customer-accessible refrigerators and a microwave rather than their full kitchens.

If anyone at One Mass is listening, bring back the grill car concept!

——-

Ken: I’m glad to hear and read that. Lewis had specifically talked about DoE’s role in keeping America’s nuclear arsenal ready, and how none of the middle management seemed to care. Perhaps these industry professionals have changed the culture at the Department back toward one of responsibility, but all around there seems to have been a steep departmental learning curve - Lewis asserts that the new appointees refused to engage in Obama administration efforts to make it a smooth transition.

[mmi16]

Anderson's intent is to screw over anything Amtrak does to drive away customers, all in the name of cutting costs.

[bostontrainguy]

Recent news posting:

Various Amtrak sources have told Railway Age that the brand-new CAF USA-built Viewliner II dining cars are having their expensive cooking equipment removed and undergoing conversion into lounge cars.

[mtuandrew]

Recent news posting:

Various Amtrak sources have told Railway Age that the brand-new CAF USA-built Viewliner II dining cars are having their expensive cooking equipment removed and undergoing conversion into lounge cars.

Lemonade from lemons, which would be fine, but we really wanted lemon meringue pie instead.

[Greg Moore]

Recent news posting:

Various Amtrak sources have told Railway Age that the brand-new CAF USA-built Viewliner II dining cars are having their expensive cooking equipment removed and undergoing conversion into lounge cars.

Fuck. Even less reason for me to ride the eastern LD trains now.