WMATA 8000 Series Rail Cars

[Sand Box John]

"Chris Brown"
That means they probably plan to rehab the 6k series right? The 2k and 3k cars need to be retired around 2023. Are they really going to run them into the ground for another 5 years?

The 2 and 3k cars got their mid life rehabilitation at roughly the same age as the 1k cars. As part of that rehabilitation they were given structural improvements that were not given to the 1k cars. The big difference between the 1k cars and the 2 and 3k cars is they weren't run like scalded dogs for 1/3 of their life like the 1k cars were.

[D40LF]

"Chris Brown"
That means they probably plan to rehab the 6k series right? The 2k and 3k cars need to be retired around 2023. Are they really going to run them into the ground for another 5 years?

The 2 and 3k cars got their mid life rehabilitation at roughly the same age as the 1k cars. As part of that rehabilitation they were given structural improvements that were not given to the 1k cars. The big difference between the 1k cars and the 2 and 3k cars is they weren't run like scalded dogs for 1/3 of their life like the 1k cars were.

What kind of structural improvements were made? I assume they probably fixed any corrosion damage, but was more done? I was under the impression that the NTSB was still concerned about the crash safety of the Breda cars.

If they are going to wait longer for the 8000 Series car procurement, it could make sense to replace the 6ks while they're at it. Having just two fleets would bring benefits in areas like maintenance. However right now the 6000s are in excellent shape and very reliable, so it would be difficult to justify an early retirement to the FTA.

[Sand Box John]

"D40LF"
What kind of structural improvements were made? I assume they probably fixed any corrosion damage, but was more done? I was under the impression that the NTSB was still concerned about the crash safety of the Breda cars.

They had their buffer strength upgraded along with other improvements. Mind you those improvements came nowhere near the crash worthiness specifications that was implemented in the the 7k car design.

[Chris Brown]

"Chris Brown"
That means they probably plan to rehab the 6k series right? The 2k and 3k cars need to be retired around 2023. Are they really going to run them into the ground for another 5 years?

The 2 and 3k cars got their mid life rehabilitation at roughly the same age as the 1k cars. As part of that rehabilitation they were given structural improvements that were not given to the 1k cars. The big difference between the 1k cars and the 2 and 3k cars is they weren't run like scalded dogs for 1/3 of their life like the 1k cars were.

But why is the procurement of 8000 series cars being delayed for 5 years? What is the thinking behind that decision?

Even if the 2k and 3k cars are very reliable at the moment, another few years on the rails can see that reliability drop. Then we have another 4k situation with constant breakdowns, etc. Obviously better maintenance will help, but everything has a shelf life no matter how well you take care of it. Otherwise NYC would still be running their original rail cars from the 1800's.

[Sand Box John]

"Chris Brown"
But why is the procurement of 8000 series cars being delayed for 5 years? What is the thinking behind that decision?

I can think of few reasons:
* Declining ridership.
* reduced service and.
* less mileage.

The declining ridership is the result of reduced confidence and reduced service. Reduced service equals less mileage. Less mileage equals longer service life. Baltimore and Miami procured larger fleets for their railroads then WMATA did. Folks from WMATA when visiting those properties were amazed at how things were in such good working order. They were that way because their larger fleets allowed lower annual mileage and more time for preventive maintenance.

[mtuandrew]

Moderator’s Note: enough with Amazon and probability.

Redacted several posts.

[Chris Brown]

As for the 8000 series,should be a simple design upgrade of the 7000 series,nothing more,nothing less!

Yeah I agree. Another total design overhaul so soon would be silly. Just add more passenger-friendly features like better electronic displays, USB ports, etc.

Better to wait for dramatic improvements in technology before making big leaps.

[YOLO]

Pretty sure the 8000 series will be a re-design. I've heard that it won't be compatible with the 7Ks regardless of how they design it. I still think they're just gonna copy the R211 design though.

[YOLO]

WMATA has a RFP out for this. Design/procurement of 8000 series trains and rehab of 6000 series trains. https://www.wmata.com/Business/procurem ... on_id=3716" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[YOLO]

Updates from Metro - resembles the R211s from NYC if you ask me

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaXWFTFWAAA2U6-.jpg:orig" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaXWHHdW0AAr0qh.jpg:orig" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaXdf6rW0AIwibS.jpg:orig" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[smallfire85]

Updates from Metro - resembles the R211s from NYC if you ask me

It's most likely cheaper to adapt an existing design than to create a new one from scratch. The R211s themselves have similar designs to London's new cars. I think it's the current design fad...

[Sand Box John]

I find this somewhat puzzling.

Metro has no plans to boost rush-hour service for years
Max Smith
04 12 2018
WTOP

Preliminary Rail Fleet Plan (1.6 MB PDF file)

Base Order
248
Replacement of 248 2 and 3k cars based on current service and ridership levels and Silver Line Phase 2.

Options 1 - 2
TBD
Based on future ridership projections.

[davinp]

Foregoing major new features, Metro looks to buy version 2.0 of the 7000-series cars

Metro’s older railcars will soon reach their end of useful life and need to be replaced, but the agency might buy fewer new ones in the future than they have now. Current ridership trends indicate that the need for more cars might not be there and that Metro has more cars now than they need — or want — to maintain.

Metro hopes to place an order for a new railcar series, the 8000s, sometime next year. In essence, the agency wants some more cars to replace the 2000/3000-series cars, but with few new major features which would separate them from the 7000s.

The agency appears to only be making incremental changes to the cars, instead of taking the opportunity to add big new features which could help the system

https://ggwash.org/view/67235/metro-rea ... 000-series" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JDC]

GGW has a piece today discussing the potential 8000-series fleet. https://ggwash.org/view/67235/metro-rea ... 000-series

[Chris Brown]

Looks like I was right about the USB ports.

To those who argued with me.. what do you have to say now?

Seems silly to plan the order based on today's ridership though. There is nothing more stupid than believing today's situation will last forever. Especially with all the growth in the DMV.