Paper from Maine to Alabama

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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JB283
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Paper from Maine to Alabama

Post by JB283 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:07 pm

Not sure if this is the right place for my question but here it is.

Georgia Pacific in Huntsville AL receives Boxcars of inbound rolls of a paper product. They are on the Norfolk Southern Memphis East main between Memphis TN and Chattanooga TN. If they was to receive inbound products from a Maine Mill on Pan Am, say Rumford. Would the Georgia Pacific facility contact NS for an empty NS Boxcar to be sent to Pan Am to be loaded or would they contact Pan Am for an empty PAR Boxcar to be loaded in Rumford and sent to Huntsville?

newpylong
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Re: Question

Post by newpylong » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:33 pm

They would talk to the carrier that directly serves them - NS.

Cowford
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Re: Question

Post by Cowford » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:14 pm

Neither. The mill in Rumford would coordinate the movement and order the car from PAR.

newpylong
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Re: Question

Post by newpylong » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Spoke to an agent on ST. We are both wrong, but you are more correct than I am. If the customer sources the product from Maine they will speak to the originating source (Rumford) and Rumford would order the empty to be loaded.

JB283
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Re: Question

Post by JB283 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:00 pm

Thank you for the info. Although I've never seen a PAR box there, I find it interesting to know how things work. Usually I see GATX or ATN or ATW and sometimes the yellow Railbox cars there.

Cowford
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Re: Question

Post by Cowford » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:59 pm

Newpylong, just curious... how is my answer wrong, albeit "less wrong"?

JB283, I would have no idea from where the Huntsville plant sources paper, but a paper load's origin is not always going to be clear-cut based on car marks/ownership. Many boxcars are operated in shared pools, so railroad A may be loading railroad B's cars. Some "railroad" marks are that of leasing companies. Also, some railroads lease equipment (without changing the marks) and there are free-runners out there.

JB283
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Re: Question

Post by JB283 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 pm

I understand that cars get leased out to different roads. I'm not sure where exactly they getbtge products either as I was there the other day and there was 1 IANR and 1 GATX Boxcar behind the building.

newpylong
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Re: Question

Post by newpylong » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:50 am

Cowford wrote:Newpylong, just curious... how is my answer wrong, albeit "less wrong"?

JB283, I would have no idea from where the Huntsville plant sources paper, but a paper load's origin is not always going to be clear-cut based on car marks/ownership. Many boxcars are operated in shared pools, so railroad A may be loading railroad B's cars. Some "railroad" marks are that of leasing companies. Also, some railroads lease equipment (without changing the marks) and there are free-runners out there.
How is a mill in Rumford going to know they need to send a car to Alabama without getting notified by said customer?

So you weren't wrong, just a missing first step. My answer was entirely wrong as the terminating carrier won't get notified until they get advanced interchange notification.

Cowford
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Re: Question

Post by Cowford » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:45 pm

The customer first placing an order is stating the obvious, no? And it's not necessarily step one, as cars needed at a mill can be ordered in aggregate and prior to an order being placed.

When depending on railroad-supplied equipment, mills provide railroads aggregated car orders on a rolling basis up to a month (or more) in advance based on sales forecasts, production schedules, existing or anticipated orders, etc. The shipper will take into account the particular requirements of anticipated shipments, e.g., loads to XYZ Co. require a low-roof car; otherwise, it's "we need X number of Y type cars." The orders placed are not always exactly accurate (railroads will charge a penalty for cars "ordered and not loaded"), and the fulfillment doesn't always match the order (in quantity or type), but good ongoing communication between railroad and shipper smooths out a lot of issues.

newpylong
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Re: Question

Post by newpylong » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:41 pm

I don't feel it was obvious because to me he was seeking in depth explanation of the process from the start, which includes locating the product.

I was just a railroader, my knowledge of the routing just stems from waybills and discussing the work with agents and clerks. Plenty to learn even for me.

Cowford
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Re: Paper from Maine to Alabama

Post by Cowford » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:22 pm

I was just a railroader...
You reminded me of CN's 2003 "I am a Railroader" annual report (link below). That's half the fun of this industry - always something new to learn! :-D


http://www.annualreports.com/HostedData ... O_2003.pdf

MissTheMEC
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Re: Paper from Maine to Alabama

Post by MissTheMEC » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:39 pm

Around 35 years ago or thereabouts a lot of paper from Rumford travelled in Minnesota, Dakota and Western boxcars that were stencilled "When empty return to Rumford ME" which at first sight seemed rather odd.

This was when Boise Cascade owned both a mill in Rumford and the MD&W. The boxcars were part of that huge fleet of new boxcars referred to by railfans at any rate as Incentive Per Diem cars. I don't know how many were assigned to service the mill in Rumford or where they went but they were a distinctive sight at Rigby. They were green with white doors and a big Boise Cascade logo.

JB283
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Re: Paper from Maine to Alabama

Post by JB283 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:55 pm

That is very interesting. I'm going to try to dig up some pictures online of those

Bulkheadflat
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Re: Paper from Maine to Alabama

Post by Bulkheadflat » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:33 am

I remember those MDW boxes being here in Maine, and also the ADN (Ashly, Drew & Northern) boxes that used to go to the GP mill in Woodland all the time. ADN was based in Arkansas, but I think maybe owned by GP, so they would probably pool the cars between their various facilities.
On another note, who remembers the old Rock Island boxcars with the big black R on the right side, that were here stenciled BM for a while?

JB283
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Re: Paper from Maine to Alabama

Post by JB283 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:07 pm

I remember bot the Rock Island cars and the ADN boxes.

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