Slim. The logs will be rotted by the time Pan Am gets them to Eastern MA lol. Then they will give the customer an absurdly high number to fix the track to improve service that the customer won't pay.
Railroad Forums
Bucksport Branch activity & news
- Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Moderator: MEC407
Oh Guilford, never stop Guilfording.
MEC407
Moderator:
Pan Am Railways — Boston & Maine/Maine Central — Delaware & Hudson
Central Maine & Quebec/Montreal, Maine & Atlantic/Bangor & Aroostook
Providence & Worcester — New England — GE Locomotives
Moderator:
Pan Am Railways — Boston & Maine/Maine Central — Delaware & Hudson
Central Maine & Quebec/Montreal, Maine & Atlantic/Bangor & Aroostook
Providence & Worcester — New England — GE Locomotives
Well at least what comes back will be better quality wood than most of the cheap crap we get from asia.
This has been going on out on the west coast for decades. Shiploads of logs from OR, WA, BC go to Asia. No one wants to actually pay Americans to make American products from American wood.
Imagine the potential, if we could just close those trade loopholes and make people who want to benefit from the American consumer market and American consumer prices and American quality materials, actually pay Americans to work.... or, just make other nations who lack the resources we have actually pay fair price for those resources they so covet, and then spread the wealth here. But instead, we've been allowed to get beat over the head both coming and going.
On the plus side, with as bad as the economics are right now, most anything that creates a few jobs and increases rail traffic is at least a small step forward.
This has been going on out on the west coast for decades. Shiploads of logs from OR, WA, BC go to Asia. No one wants to actually pay Americans to make American products from American wood.
Imagine the potential, if we could just close those trade loopholes and make people who want to benefit from the American consumer market and American consumer prices and American quality materials, actually pay Americans to work.... or, just make other nations who lack the resources we have actually pay fair price for those resources they so covet, and then spread the wealth here. But instead, we've been allowed to get beat over the head both coming and going.
On the plus side, with as bad as the economics are right now, most anything that creates a few jobs and increases rail traffic is at least a small step forward.
oibu wrote:This has been going on out on the west coast for decades. Shiploads of logs from OR, WA, BC go to Asia. No one wants to actually pay Americans to make American products from American wood.Caveat: No one overseas can afford to pay Americans to make American products from American wood.
On the other hand ... there are plenty of pallet mills and saw mills in my area that are busy year round that source all of their wood (and their labor) locally.
The issue for export products is a question of "value added". Pallets made in Maine are way more expensive to an overseas buyer than pallets made in Vietnam. On the other hand engineered laminates are not only price competitive (in part due to automation) but also may have a qualitative edge as well.
It doesn't make sense to import finished pallets from China (or even Vietnam) and it also doesn't make sense to export them elsewhere. But once you get into "value-added" goods the economics are completely different.
The Bucksport operation is right in the middle ... exporting raw unfinished materials in bulk to locations that may not have sufficient supply to meet demand. This business (if it works) is a good example of the price of deforestation to the developing world ... you end up having to import far more expensive supplies from the developed world to meet demand.
gokeefe
I had understood that the ships from china picking up wood in Portland twenty or so years ago actually had the chemicals and machinery on board with the ability to turn the pulp wood into usable pulp by the time it got back to china. same thign they used to do or maybe still do with cattle hides.
Yes, but a lot more is made from wood than just pallets, and some of it just ends up coming back here as a junky, but finished, product.
The point is just that our economy will always be faltering so long as the majority of north americans cannot afford to buy quality long-lasting north American products and must rely on cheap Asian imports that quickly break or wear out (which means that in the long run no consumer is saving actual money anyway, but merely resorting to a Band-Aid for short term cash flow issues on a constant cycle). If more north Americans were employed and paid more to make quality goods, more north americans would be able to afford quality products made by north americans, and all of that money would just cycle endlessly through the north American economy (think not only employment numbers and incomes but also the implications for investment, infrastructure, debt, etc.) rather than having a giant vacuum constantly sucking a large portion of the money permanently out of the system never to be seen again.
But anyway, I'm not looking to debate politics or policy... it was just an off-the-cuff observation of where things stand, the bizarre state of the world we live in, and the potential relation that might have to this potential traffic move.
The point is just that our economy will always be faltering so long as the majority of north americans cannot afford to buy quality long-lasting north American products and must rely on cheap Asian imports that quickly break or wear out (which means that in the long run no consumer is saving actual money anyway, but merely resorting to a Band-Aid for short term cash flow issues on a constant cycle). If more north Americans were employed and paid more to make quality goods, more north americans would be able to afford quality products made by north americans, and all of that money would just cycle endlessly through the north American economy (think not only employment numbers and incomes but also the implications for investment, infrastructure, debt, etc.) rather than having a giant vacuum constantly sucking a large portion of the money permanently out of the system never to be seen again.
But anyway, I'm not looking to debate politics or policy... it was just an off-the-cuff observation of where things stand, the bizarre state of the world we live in, and the potential relation that might have to this potential traffic move.
Has demolition been completed on the mill? Any news on future use of site?
From what Ive been told, it appears Bucksport learned nothing from talks with other AIM mill towns. The value is gone, AIM having pocketed that. Demolition has stopped, leaving a half demolished mill facility. Way more work to do than the bond the town made AIM post will cover. AIM currently working on East Mill. Maybe they will be the town that finally figures out how to handle AIM. Sartell and Bucksport certainly provided good examples what not to do.
hh660 wrote:Quite a few years ago P.D. Merrill in Portland, attempted to sell logs to a Japanese group. He amassed a huge stockpile of Hemlock logs along Commercial Street next to-maybe in-old yard 8. They sat there, for what seemed months. The story was that when the potential buyers cam to inspect the the 30 foot long Hemlock, disappointed in the lengths, they asked, 'where is the rest of the tree?' and walked away from the deal.that was back in 1992 & 1993. i worked for an association that tried to get contractors to NOT export the hemlock logs, but rather process (add value to) them domestically.
The logs sat there for another several months until they were hauled away by truck for some use in Maine or New Hampshire.
S
member, new hampshire timberland owners association
KSmitty wrote: AIM currently working on East Mill.Did they throw our North American Recovery Management? They had their own myriad of issues during their demo project last year.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bangor ... aper-mill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good news for Bucksport. Not so good news for the bucksport branch.
Good news for Bucksport. Not so good news for the bucksport branch.
Why? I would imagine fish need to be fed, and later the well fed aquatic life would need some outbound, frozen, travel accommodations. Thus one could expect two way traffic from the site.
Last edited by MEC407 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: unnecessary quoting
I've never heard of fish food moving by rail, and I would imagine all outbound deliveries would be done by truck due to the time sensitive nature of the cargo.
Last edited by MEC407 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: unnecessary quoting
I think at a bare minimum a facility of this size would want to bring in fish feed in hopper cars. Pan Am already has at least one customer who ships seafood by railcar at Highliner in Portsmouth. I could easily see this facility becoming another one to include intermodal container shipments.
gokeefe
but the question is whether PAR can justify keeping the line open (and repairing the ROW to reasonable condition) to serve a single customer that would only need sporatic deliveries of a few carloads at a time.
As for intermodal, would it not be easier to dray containers to Waterville and load them there? I can imagine that it would take AT LEAST 24 hours for an IM load to get from bucksport to Rigby given current track speeds.
It's also worth noting that the aerial rendering from the MaineBiz article doesn't show any obvious rail connections.
As for intermodal, would it not be easier to dray containers to Waterville and load them there? I can imagine that it would take AT LEAST 24 hours for an IM load to get from bucksport to Rigby given current track speeds.
It's also worth noting that the aerial rendering from the MaineBiz article doesn't show any obvious rail connections.
Last edited by MEC407 on Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: unnecessary quoting