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  • Pacific Surfliner

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1422357  by Balerion
 
I couldn't find a general-purpose Pacific Surfliner thread, so I thought I'd start one. Apologies if I missed something.

The Oceanside Transit Center is getting some upgrades:
A third track, a new boarding platform, better lighting, and more shelters, seating and other amenities are being added at the transit center, which is one of the busiest bus and commuter rail stops in San Diego County. The improvements will speed up boarding and transitions for existing trains and make room to add new ones, officials say.

San Diego County’s regional planning agency, SANDAG, is investing $24 million in the Oceanside project, believing it will help serve the growing number of commuters who use passenger trains to avoid driving on Southern California’s clogged freeways.
The third track and additional boarding stations will increase the number of trains that can board passengers simultaneously and will allow freight trains to move through the station without stopping for the passenger trains, transportation officials said.
Oceanside sees 12 round-trip Pacific Surfliners and is the terminus for two Metrolink lines and two North County Transit lines, so I would imagine this will unlock some operational flexibility.
 #1427687  by Woody
 
Thanks for starting this thread, Balerion. Sorry I overlooked it when you posted.

I'm on the other coast, but I'm interested in Surfliner news like this item. And very interested in the plans for the north stretch from L.A. to Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo-San Jose. The work to be done in that corridor should take many minutes out of the timetable for the Surfliners and the Coast Starlight as well.
++++++++++
Oceanside has grown from 231,000 on-offs for the Surfliner in 2014 to 258,000 in 2015 and 313,000 in 2016. Very nice. No wonder they need a bigger station. :-D

After a slow-growth plateau from 2,098,000 riders in 2010 to 2,232,000 in 2014, total ridership on the Surfliner stepped up to 2,394,000 in 2015 and 2,499,000 in 2016. Another San Diego-L.A. frequency, the 12th, was added in November, so the outlook for another solid gain in ridership this year seems good.

Any route growing by 100,000 riders a year deserves our attention!
 #1427754  by jonnhrr
 
How much of the line from LA to San Diego is single track? Are there plans to eventually double track the entire line?

Jon
 #1427758  by electricron
 
jonnhrr wrote:How much of the line from LA to San Diego is single track? Are there plans to eventually double track the entire line?
Jon
Using Google Earth tools could answer that question specifically. Per
http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/Lossa ... intro.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Two-thirds of the Los Angles to San Diego Line is double track today.
 #1427796  by rohr turbo
 
I too think that a few Pacific Surfliner runs should be extended all the way to San Jose. This is a great corridor for tourists, college students, possibly even some business travel.

Today a student wanting to travel between the San Francisco bay area to SLO or Santa Barbara has only one slow train (CS). Yet there are 4-5 Amtrak Thruway buses running the route that refuse to take you unless you are transferring to a train?!?

I read that San Francisco to LA is one of the busiest air traffic corridors in the country. Seems ridiculous that there is only one train daily train on the route.

You could even combine it with a Capitol Corridor run. One seat: Sacramento--San Jose-- LA.

Extend some Surfliners!

Hey mod: this IS an Amtrak topic....why moved?
 #1427814  by Backshophoss
 
Believe that's the goal of the "LOSSAN",that currently extends from San Diego to Santa Barbara.

Believe the "Amtrak-California" has been split into 2 seperate operations from Caltrans/CaDOT:
Capital Corridor/San Joaquin services with JPBX("Caltrain") as lead agency.

The Surfliner services are under the "LOSSAN" header with SCAX(Metrolink) as the lead agency
 #1427823  by bdawe
 
rohr turbo wrote:I too think that a few Pacific Surfliner runs should be extended all the way to San Jose. This is a great corridor for tourists, college students, possibly even some business travel.

Today a student wanting to travel between the San Francisco bay area to SLO or Santa Barbara has only one slow train (CS). Yet there are 4-5 Amtrak Thruway buses running the route that refuse to take you unless you are transferring to a train?!?

I read that San Francisco to LA is one of the busiest air traffic corridors in the country. Seems ridiculous that there is only one train daily train on the route.

You could even combine it with a Capitol Corridor run. One seat: Sacramento--San Jose-- LA.

Extend some Surfliners!

Hey mod: this IS an Amtrak topic....why moved?
Thing is that LA-SJ was 8:45 back in flagship-passenger service days, and several hours worse now.

I'd like to see one of them extended, but Its probably not something that has any relation to air-traffic overhead.
 #1427868  by jamesinclair
 
rohr turbo wrote:I too think that a few Pacific Surfliner runs should be extended all the way to San Jose. This is a great corridor for tourists, college students, possibly even some business travel.

Today a student wanting to travel between the San Francisco bay area to SLO or Santa Barbara has only one slow train (CS). Yet there are 4-5 Amtrak Thruway buses running the route that refuse to take you unless you are transferring to a train?!?

I read that San Francisco to LA is one of the busiest air traffic corridors in the country. Seems ridiculous that there is only one train daily train on the route.

You could even combine it with a Capitol Corridor run. One seat: Sacramento--San Jose-- LA.

Extend some Surfliners!

Hey mod: this IS an Amtrak topic....why moved?
The Coast Daylight is still on the books as being planned, as is Capitol Corridor to Salinas.
 #1427894  by Woody
 
The LOSSAN Pacific Surfliner page with a breakdown of recent and current upgrades to the south-most part of the route -- completed, underway, and planned -- is simply outstanding.

http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/Lossa ... intro.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An interactive map shows this segment currently getting the most attention: the 62 miles between the Orange County line, just north of Camp Pendleton, and San Diego. An overview shows each component project of the $1 Billion upgrade, with "push pins" color-coded to show completed status (green) or not yet (red), linked to a photo and blurb of info.

One blurb, #25, is a chart showing current estimates of the segment track that has been or will be completed, by year out to 2050 or so when it reaches 100%. After a few years stuck at 50%, things got better starting 2012, rising to 65% thru last year (when another frequency was added.) Starting this year again, more double track will be added over three years, with projects to be completed soon bringing that total figure here to 77% by 2020.

The plan aims for 90% of this segment to be double track by 2025. No doubt that deadline could be advanced if anyone was serious about improving infrastructure; a few big projects are listed as 'unfunded'. Not discussed are a couple of places on the map where they may need to borrow some of Elon Musk's magical tunnel-building machines. :wink:

Very rarely do any of the projects claim a speed improvement. The emphasis is on more capacity and better time-keeping. Obviously, the program has already paid off with a 12th frequency of the Surfliner, as of the past November, adding capacity.

Blurb #26 is a table showing the expected increase in trains on this route -- commuter lines, BNSF freight, and Amtrak's Surfliners. Expect still higher ridership in the future.
 #1427904  by Woody
 
bdawe wrote:
rohr turbo wrote:... a few Pacific Surfliner runs should be extended all the way ... a great corridor for tourists, college students, business travel.
Thing is that LA-SJ was 8:45 back in flagship-passenger service days, and several hours worse now.
Glad to see that 8 hrs 45 min is a reasonable target for the run. Current schedule leaves San Jose at 10:06 a.m., arrives L.A. at 9 p.m. An 11-hour timetable.

Back up to Santa Barbara: depart 6:02 p.m., arrive L.A., 103 miles away, at 9 p.m. Help me with the math now, fellas, I'm old n tired. Seems like the train goes at an average of 34 mph thru the western extensions of Greater L.A. Dayum. If capital investment could raise the speed on that segment alone to a still-slow 50 mph, the Starlight would pull into L.A. an hour earlier, by 8 p.m. (Yeah, I know the 'Coast Starlate' sometimes needs the padding in the schedule.)

But you've given us a target of an 8:45 run, like the old days. I'd think we can do even better nowadays, but I'll say a 9-hour run from San Jose getting into L.A. by 8 p.m. There's a Surfliner heading to San Diego at 8:25 p.m., arriving downtown at 11:24 p.m. That's not prime time, but it's tolerable. Much much better than the current 10:10 p.m. Surfliner arriving in San Diego at 1:06 a.m. Most of Amtrak's LD riders aren't into the post-midnight thing at all. Really want to see an earlier arrival in San Diego like this, to more solidly link the San Diego metro area to the Coast Starlight's catchment.

The California State Rail plan (or something I read linked to it), makes it clear that California is getting ready to invest in this route. One study, of the L.A.-Santa Barbara-San Luis-Obispo segments, has been studied and a report could be released soonish, iirc. Another study, of the San Luis Obispo-Salinas segment, is underway. These studies aim to identify needs -- passing sidings, curve straightening, new bridges, the usual -- to prepare the line for more and faster passenger trains.

I won't be surprised to see another two or three trains added L.A.-Santa Barbara, with one of them going thru to SLO, just as soon as California can get its hands on more equipment. (Siemens Chargers, soon; Nippon-Sharyo bi-level coaches, not so soon.)

But under the plan as I recall it, the full length Coast Daylight is the lowest priority, behind the L.A.-Santa Barbara segment and the Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo segment. That would follow the pattern set with the Surfliner L.A.-San Diego, where the first investments were near L.A., and the spending only recently accelerated on the south-most leg into San Diego. As time is whittled off the near-to-L.A. segments, those time savings pass thru to schedules to San Diego and Santa Barbara/San Luis Obispo/Bay Area, helping ridership to grow farther out while waiting for upgrades toward the lower-population (or simply more costly to reach) end points.

Of course, the state has another north-south connector underway and it's gulping down funds as it builds thru the Central Valley. Haters in Congress want to block HSR -- it's President Obama's and Governor Brown's baby. But California seems ready to pay for the damn thing themselves if they have to! (The Resistance!) Sadly, collateral victims may include all the other potential rail investments, as yet unfunded, while state taxes go to build HSR.
 #1427913  by bdawe
 
Looking at the 1971 Time table, the north bound daylight averaged 58 between Glendale and Oxnard, 47 between Oxnard and Santa Barbara, 52 between Santa Barbara and SLO, 49 between SLO and Salinas (over Cuesta grade and all), 55 between Salinas and San Jose, 54 between San Jose and Palo Alto, and 40 between Palo Alto & San Francisco (48 the other direction)

Though, it only made those stops
 #1509121  by D.S. Lewith
 
The LOSSAN corridor is the most travelled Amtrak route outside of the Northeast Corridor. However, to get it to remotely the standards seen on the Northeast Corridor, a lot of improvements would have to be made. These improvements include dual-tracking (at minimum), grade separation to eliminate all grade crossings, and electrification.

Phase 1 (Los Angeles-San Diego): This is where much of the ridership comes from so I expect this is where the rebuilding will first take place.
* Track relocation from Del Mar to La Jolla: At Del Mar, the tracks run dangerously close to the coast line, and at La Jolla, they go through a hairpin turn, so the tracks will be relocated.
* San Diego freight bypass: This would reroute freight radiating from the San Diego area to follow Interstate 15 and Interstate 215 into Riverside, redirecting freight traffic radiating from the San Diego area, and also making the LOSSAN tracks between Fullerton and San Diego virtually freight-free. This can work as a public-private partnership with BNSF similar to Norfolk Southern's Heartland Corridor.
* San Juan Capistrano Tunnel: At near Dana Point, there is a near 90 degree turn, which will hamper speeds. A new tunnel between San Clemente and San Juan Capistrano will have to be build.
* New ROW between Santa Ana and LA Union Station. Amtrak California can acquire the lightly-used Anaheim Subdivision from UPRR between Santa Ana and Norwalk and redevelop the ROW. Between Norwalk and Commerce, a new ROW following Interstate 5 will be built (can certainly make better use of that widening they've been doing), and between Norwalk and the Redondo Junction Grade Separation, a new elevated ROW will be built following the existing ROW.
* New maintenance facility: Amtrak has an existing maintenance facility (8th. Street Yard). While it's currenly fine as it, should the LOSSAN line and its radiating lines be modernized, the rail yard would be insufficient to handle the increased frequencies (this issue would also likely plague Metrolink). A reactivated Taylor Yard could have happened but G2 (where the majority of it is) has been earmarked for redevelopment as a residential community. This would make finding space for a new maintenance facility extremely difficult. A new maintenance facility in Commerce would be impractical as it's too far out from LA Union Station. The closest would be the existing ex-SP rail yard, but Amtrak and the SCRRA would have to negotiate with UPRR to gain a piece of it to remake it into a new maintenance facility. Such a development can happen best in tandem with a new route following I-10 via a redeveloped El Monte Busway.
Salinas-San Jose: Amtrak is planning on extending Capitol Corridor services to Salinas. Modernization and improvement of this route can happen in tandem with the Los Angeles-San Siego modernization.

Phase 2 (Los Angeles-San Luis Obispo): Compared to the Los Angeles-San Diego, this section will be more difficult to build as there will be a lot more ROW acquisitions as the existing route is too winding for even a modern higher (like 125 mph) speed rail line (particularly on the ROW that parallels UP's Coast Line as UP is clingy with their tracks but I can see them benefit from a rebuilt and modernized rail line)
* New Los Angeles-Camarillo rail line: Between Camarillo and Los Angeles, a new rail line will be built, largely parallelling US Route 101. Much of this new rail line will be either elevated (such as through Ventura Boulevard) or underground (such as from LA-Studio City amd much of the Conejo Valley). Upon being built, all Amtrak and Metrolink services will relocate to the new line. This would end up supplanting Metrolink services through the Simi Valley, so a DMU will be used for the old Ventura County line.
* New Gaviota-San Luis Obispo track: Similar to the new Camarillo-Los Angeles track, a new ROW will be built parallelikg US Route 101. This will bypass Lompoc and Vandenberg AFB and enable Amtrak to serve Santa Maria

Phase 3 (San Luis Obispo-Salinas): This section has no corridor service, being only served by the long-distance Coast Starlight. Currently along this section, Amtrak plans to add stops to Soledad and King City. This section will likely be the last to be completed in the modernization program.
* Cuesta Base Tunnel: The existing route has a very long and winding segment north of San Luis Obispo as it asends the Cuesta Pass. Building a new tunnel will shave off a sizeable portion of time.
 #1509143  by Tadman
 
While I agree that this line has even more potential, the Californians are still a fickle group. They pretend to be environmentalists but LOVE their cars. Recently while attending a wedding in Pasadena, I stayed downtown and rode the Gold Line. People thought I was crazy for using public transportation and staying downtown. Other wedding attendees in Oceanside (half way to San Diego) all drove rather than taking Surfliner. I suggested Surfliner and they looked at me like I was crazy again.

Somehow I endure their hilarious commentary about my politics, but come time to put their money where their mouth is, and it's hardcore car driving time.