D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Discussion relating to the D&H. For more information, please visit the Bridge Line Historical Society.

Moderator: MEC407

Post Reply
User avatar
scottychaos
Posts: 4587
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by scottychaos » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:24 pm

Hey D&H fans, we have a mystery going on in another forum, please take a look:

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 9#p1286639" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The question is: which is correct? RS3u or RS3m? perhaps both at different times?
or is RS3u a myth? that is the mystery to be solved.

This older discussion:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dan ... pics/61837" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Says there are written D&H records to support RS3m, and the D&H itself did in fact paint RS3m on the repainted 502.
(the only one of the eight the D&H repainted into a second D&H scheme)

So where did RS3u come from?
Does anyone have any actual hard evidence to support RS3u?
Or more hard evicence for RS3m?
Is it possible that RS3u is simply an almost 40 year old railfan myth that has been repeated for so long that many
believe it to be true, (and even led the Tioga Central to call their unit a RS3u for the past 20 years) but perhaps it never was true?
Did the TIOC perhaps call the 506 an RS3u based on a myth? very interesting..

The Tioga Central recently sold the only remaining D&H RS3u/RS3m to the LAL, details in the first link above..

So far we have:

1. D&H paper records that say RS3m, from the poster in the yahoo discussion linked above.
2. The actual D&H 502 clearly labeled RS3m by the D&H itself. (actually, technically D&H marked it RS3M..capital M)
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3720714" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No known, yet, factual proof to support RS3u from the D&H.

3. The Tioga Central has actually called the 506 a RS3u while it has been in their possession:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110717063 ... ipment.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can we nail this one down once and for all? :)
thanks,
Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages

User avatar
scottychaos
Posts: 4587
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

Re: D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by scottychaos » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:05 pm

Update on evidence for RS3m and RS3u

RS3m evidence:
1. D&H paper records that say RS3m, from the poster in the yahoo discussion linked above.
2. The actual D&H 502 clearly labeled RS3M by the D&H itself.
3. D&H classification for "regular" RS3's was ARS-20. D&H classification for the rebuilds was ARS-20m.

No known, yet, factual proof to support RS3u from the D&H.

RS3u evidence:
1. The Tioga Central has actually called the 506 a RS3u while it has been in their possession.

Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages

Backshophoss
Posts: 6205
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by Backshophoss » Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:19 am

"u" = upgrade,componets were upgraded to provide reliable service,no major performace change.
"m" = Modified,componets changed to get rid of no longer produced parts/systems,some sort of
major performace change,up/down Horsepower,gearing,or air brake system swapout.
NYC/PC created the "DeWitt Geep" by swapping out the ALCO prime mover with a EMD 567 from a
retired E-6,7 passenger loco,retaining 90% of the RS-3 systems,modified to work with the EMD engine.
ALCO was gone when this was done.

The BEST way to figure this out might be digging thru the archives of X2200 South,their editors
created the "orignal" definations of the "u" and "m" "tags"
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

User avatar
Benjamin Maggi
Posts: 1119
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:52 am
Location: Albany, NY

Re: D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by Benjamin Maggi » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:17 pm

scottychaos wrote: Says there are written D&H records to support RS3m, and the D&H itself did in fact paint RS3m on the repainted 502. (the only one of the eight the D&H repainted into a second D&H scheme)
Someday, I plan to build a model of the #502 in the solid blue scheme. I think a lack of RS3-m/u models is a shame, though I understand why commercial model companies don't want to offer them.
Benjamin L. Maggi
A&A Railroad Forum Moderator

mandealco
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:03 am
Location: Alexandra, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by mandealco » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:38 am

Hi Scot
I have always considered them RS-3U's, as they were an upgrade of existing components, and horsepower. The units were not just modified (chop nosed, improved electronics, prime mover mods) they were significantly upgraded with a 2000hp 251 V-12, so my vote is for "U".
Cheers
Steve
There's only one Alco in NZ. 8-(

User avatar
scottychaos
Posts: 4587
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:18 am
Location: Rochester, NY
Contact:

Re: D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by scottychaos » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:29 pm

thanks everyone! good stuff..
Yes, I have always heard, and read, RS3u as well, for decades..
but what any of us "have heard" is irrelevant to this question..
and what we think about the definitions of "modified" or "upgraded" is also irrelevant..
and if we personally consider these D&H units to be "modified" or "upgraded" is also irrelevant.. ;)
what we personally think about any of things doesn't matter at all..

all that matters, as far as I am concerned, is what did the D&H actually call them?
we still cant come up with any actual evidence for RS3u, other than hearsay.
but we also cant prove the D&H *didnt* ever call them RS3u's..interesting.
we have no hard data either way..

RS3m is well established, but not RS3u..
im still hoping this mystery can be solved! but its also possible we might never know..
we need some real D&H paperwork from 1975 and 1976..

thanks,
Scot
~ Scot Lawrence
Moderator: Lehigh Valley
Co-Moderator: Anthracite Railroads
Scot's railroad webpages

traingeek8223
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 11:07 am
Location: Milepost Hobbies, Amsterdam, NY

Re: D&H RS3u versus RS3m.

Post by traingeek8223 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:10 pm

Any D&H Railroader I've ever talked to simply referred to them as "500's", or more commonly "junk" :-D . The late Gus Negus, who was somewhat involved in the planning process for the rebuild project, called them RS3u.
Matt Giardino
ALCO Historical & Technical Society



"To journey on the rails once more, really would be fine...
Just one more chance to ride again, on the Grand Adirondack Line."

Post Reply

Return to “Delaware & Hudson”