by wurlitzer153
wurlitzer153 wrote:Trainorders is reporting that 14T may have the NS unit today, possibly trailing.Through Painesville, OH at 9:15 PM, 8114 leading.
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Railroad Forums
wurlitzer153 wrote:Trainorders is reporting that 14T may have the NS unit today, possibly trailing.Through Painesville, OH at 9:15 PM, 8114 leading.
Gilbert B Norman wrote:Here is a convenient source to view the NS "Heritage Fleet":I visited the link, and frankly I am appalled. Guess who is missing? {u]THE VERY ROAD THAT WAS AND IS AN ORIGINAL PARTNER IN THE MERGER INTO NORFOLK SOUTHERN[/U]! This illustrates my allegations most vividly and proves an undeniable prejudice against Southern Railway amongst the "northern" brethren of rail buffs who fawn and coo over all those oh-so 'mighty' railroads, and ignore one of the most astute, well-managed railroads in the USA. Despite the omissions and slights, might I point out that, no matter how much you blither and drool over those other oh-so-wonderful railroads, they are either GONE thru merger, went bankrupt, or were swallowed up by more savvy, more efficient railroads--LIKE NORFOLK SOUTHERN. Let me ask you: if the situation were reversed, would the "mighty" Lehigh Valley have the CASH, the wherewithal, to DO a Heritage Fleet? Well, Norfolk Southern DID! If you took the time to research the history of Southern Railway like you do the "yankee" roads, you'd be surprised at its achievements, and how it earned the slogan, "Southern Gives a Greenlight to Innovations".
http://www.heartlandrails.com/photos/pb ... /2012&src=
I remain astounded how a road that has held, including predecessors, for well the past fifty years like Henry Ford; "You can have it painted any color you want so long as it's Black, has now become the leader in developing a heritage fleet. Chessie, it's time for you to "get with the program".
Gadfly wrote:Try not to be offended by this. Norfolk Southern has indeed accomplished much, and certainly outlasted the northeastern railroads in the end. The vast majority of railfans don't mean any slight to NS - I certainly don't, and I'm glad they are still around to keep the freight system moving.Gilbert B Norman wrote:Here is a convenient source to view the NS "Heritage Fleet":I visited the link, and frankly I am appalled. Guess who is missing? {u]THE VERY ROAD THAT WAS AND IS AN ORIGINAL PARTNER IN THE MERGER INTO NORFOLK SOUTHERN[/U]! This illustrates my allegations most vividly and proves an undeniable prejudice against Southern Railway amongst the "northern" brethren of rail buffs who fawn and coo over all those oh-so 'mighty' railroads, and ignore one of the most astute, well-managed railroads in the USA. Despite the omissions and slights, might I point out that, no matter how much you blither and drool over those other oh-so-wonderful railroads, they are either GONE thru merger, went bankrupt, or were swallowed up by more savvy, more efficient railroads--LIKE NORFOLK SOUTHERN. Let me ask you: if the situation were reversed, would the "mighty" Lehigh Valley have the CASH, the wherewithal, to DO a Heritage Fleet? Well, Norfolk Southern DID! If you took the time to research the history of Southern Railway like you do the "yankee" roads, you'd be surprised at its achievements, and how it earned the slogan, "Southern Gives a Greenlight to Innovations".
http://www.heartlandrails.com/photos/pb ... /2012&src=
I remain astounded how a road that has held, including predecessors, for well the past fifty years like Henry Ford; "You can have it painted any color you want so long as it's Black, has now become the leader in developing a heritage fleet. Chessie, it's time for you to "get with the program".
I mean no harm, but I get SICK of hearing about the 'wonderful' Pennsylvania" or the "NOO Yawk Central", or the Lackawanna! Hell, what I remember about these roads, for example, we were instructed that, when we got track material loaded in a Pennsy, a NYC or a PC gon, do NOT try to unload the car if they were filled with snow. YOU'RE LIABLE to FALL THRU the damn floor!!!!!!!!! No lie! We got the most rickety, shoddy cars you ever saw from these foreign roads, and our Safety Department issued these instructions. Send dangerous cars BACK, or if you can safely unload them, move them to the RIP track for repair, OR RDR (return direct route--do NOT reload!! These "great" railroads couldn't even afford to send us cars that weren't full of HOLES to fall thru! We were amazed that any railroad even HAD such dangerous, bad-ordered cars! At least SOUTHERN could afford to maintain decent, SAFE cars! "Mighty, indeed!
Sorry, but it makes me mad.
GF
PARailWiz wrote:Gadfly wrote:Try not to be offended by this. Norfolk Southern has indeed accomplished much, and certainly outlasted the northeastern railroads in the end. The vast majority of railfans don't mean any slight to NS - I certainly don't, and I'm glad they are still around to keep the freight system moving.Gilbert B Norman wrote:Here is a convenient source to view the NS "Heritage Fleet":I visited the link, and frankly I am appalled. Guess who is missing? {u]THE VERY ROAD THAT WAS AND IS AN ORIGINAL PARTNER IN THE MERGER INTO NORFOLK SOUTHERN[/U]! This illustrates my allegations most vividly and proves an undeniable prejudice against Southern Railway amongst the "northern" brethren of rail buffs who fawn and coo over all those oh-so 'mighty' railroads, and ignore one of the most astute, well-managed railroads in the USA. Despite the omissions and slights, might I point out that, no matter how much you blither and drool over those other oh-so-wonderful railroads, they are either GONE thru merger, went bankrupt, or were swallowed up by more savvy, more efficient railroads--LIKE NORFOLK SOUTHERN. Let me ask you: if the situation were reversed, would the "mighty" Lehigh Valley have the CASH, the wherewithal, to DO a Heritage Fleet? Well, Norfolk Southern DID! If you took the time to research the history of Southern Railway like you do the "yankee" roads, you'd be surprised at its achievements, and how it earned the slogan, "Southern Gives a Greenlight to Innovations".
http://www.heartlandrails.com/photos/pb ... /2012&src=
I remain astounded how a road that has held, including predecessors, for well the past fifty years like Henry Ford; "You can have it painted any color you want so long as it's Black, has now become the leader in developing a heritage fleet. Chessie, it's time for you to "get with the program".
I mean no harm, but I get SICK of hearing about the 'wonderful' Pennsylvania" or the "NOO Yawk Central", or the Lackawanna! Hell, what I remember about these roads, for example, we were instructed that, when we got track material loaded in a Pennsy, a NYC or a PC gon, do NOT try to unload the car if they were filled with snow. YOU'RE LIABLE to FALL THRU the damn floor!!!!!!!!! No lie! We got the most rickety, shoddy cars you ever saw from these foreign roads, and our Safety Department issued these instructions. Send dangerous cars BACK, or if you can safely unload them, move them to the RIP track for repair, OR RDR (return direct route--do NOT reload!! These "great" railroads couldn't even afford to send us cars that weren't full of HOLES to fall thru! We were amazed that any railroad even HAD such dangerous, bad-ordered cars! At least SOUTHERN could afford to maintain decent, SAFE cars! "Mighty, indeed!
Sorry, but it makes me mad.
GF
Southern was a great railroad that did many things well. But there were also other circumstances that helped push the northeastern railroads down besides poor management, including the collapse of northeastern industry, the decline in use and availability of anthracite coal, general overbuilding of the railroad infrastructure, and Hurricane Agnes (not to mention the apparently gross incompetence of the PRR / PC management in its latter years). Indeed, Erie-Lackawanna almost made it, and the Reading at least had a reputation for good management until the end. If Southern had been operating in the northeast among all these problems, it's possible no amount of good management and good practices would have saved it from Conrail either.
Keep in mind that us northern railfans grew up in the north, so naturally our railroading past is the focus of our interstest, and Southern played little direct role in it until relatively recently. We focus on their history because that's what our parents and grandparents remember - working for them, riding on them, watching them roll through their communities. And there was a time when they were great railroads, long ago. But like many of our parents and grandparents and the industrial might of the northeast, they are gone - and all we have are the memories and historical records left behind, and the historical landmarks that still bear their remains: old bridges, train stations, headquarters. We can see Southern locomotives and operations anytime we want - their descendant is all over the place. But they lack that local historical connection, coming as they do from way down south in Atlanta. Seeing an authentic operating PRR, Reading, Lehigh Valley, etc railroad operation is impossible, and the NS heritage program is probably as close as we will get.
So I am grateful that NS has instituted this program, and I hope that explains why many of us focus on the old northeastern heritage units, despite the flaws of their forebears.
charlie6017 wrote:Gadfly,There I gotcha. Saw it several times, and listened and talked to them working Saluda Grade while working as Operator, Hayne Yard. I heard them "doubling the hill"
I would have LOVED to see freights go up and down Saluda Grade. Alas, I got into railfanning
a wee-bit too late to see it. It was taken OOS not long afterward. But I do understand what
you're saying.........Southern merged out of necessity, unlike financially with the NE roads.
A surrounded railroad is a DEAD railroad.
Charlie
Gadfly wrote:I remember looking up the timetable entry for the Saluda Grade back when I had the opportunity...there were a lot of special rules for trains going downgrade, including stopping at the top to charge the brakes 100%. At one point I think they also had to use the horn to signal a switch up ahead that the train was in control and didn't have to be directed to the sand track?charlie6017 wrote:Gadfly,There I gotcha. Saw it several times, and listened and talked to them working Saluda Grade while working as Operator, Hayne Yard. I heard them "doubling the hill"
I would have LOVED to see freights go up and down Saluda Grade. Alas, I got into railfanning
a wee-bit too late to see it. It was taken OOS not long afterward. But I do understand what
you're saying.........Southern merged out of necessity, unlike financially with the NE roads.
A surrounded railroad is a DEAD railroad.
Charlie
at Melrose. If you actually SEE that hill, you'll wonder how steel wheels can go up such a steep grade! Saluda was so steep that if an engineer was indiscreet with his brakes he would find himself going into the sand track! He got only TWO chances!
GF
chuchubob wrote:SOU Heritage unitI saw this one (Southern) and was standing just a few feet from where this photo was taken at Spencer. But when another photog took a photo of what was supposedly ALL the heritage units, the SOU unit was conspiciously absent. It would give the impression that this was ALL the heritage units represented when one of the MAIN ones was missing. Let us not forget that it was SOUTHERN and NORFOLK & WESTERN that made up the two initial partners, NOT those "mighty" roads who are only now represented by ONE locomotive and operate as a PURCHASED subsidiary of Conrail. Some of these were merged partners within the old Conrail, some were struggling, some were teetering on bankruptcy----all came under the umbrella of Conrail which was purchased by two successful railroads: NS and CSX. The rest, now under CSX, would be Seaboard, Atlantic Coastline, Baltimore & Ohio, Chesapeake & Ohio, and others I don't recall. NS, they say in real estate, had one thing going for them: location, location, location. The other one was shrewd, frugal management, low deferred maintenance, and a lower operating ratio. IOW, it was cash rich with which to BUY up other roads.
gp80mac wrote:Maybe if you didn't keep running your locomotives backwards....
(do I have to say the above was tongue-in-cheek)?? But seriously, I think you are looking way too much into some fan's photo page.