B&M Pullman Standard Streamline Cars

[bumthum]

Does anyone have good clear photos of the P-S streamliners used by the B&M? I've searched the internet and several books and all of the photos I found focus on the motive power (not a major suprise). I know they were commonly used on the Ambassador in later years behind a pair McGinnis F units and an RPO car. What other B&M trains ran with these cars through Vermont or New Hampshire? Thank you in advance.

[Pat Fahey]

HI

Is this what you are looking for Pat , The photo is out of The Offical Pullman - Standard Library Vol 10 Northeast Railroads by W. David Randall & William G. Anderson , you should be able too find this book through Ron's Books , or other retail book stores that sell railroad books.

[edbear]

If you are referring to the 1947 P-S silver cars, B & M and Maine Central had matching orders for 12 each, 8 coaches, 2 combines and 2 restaurant lounges, 24 cars in all. Initially they were assigned to Boston-Portland-Bangor service. Bangor & Aroostook had a few matching cars and in the 1947-57 period, under some schedules there was a through Boston-Van Buren coach on the BAR's Aroostook Flyer. The MEC quit serving meals by 1950 or so and sold its two restaurant lounge cars. Passenger business was in a steady decline so the B & M cars also got onto the State of Maine and in 1952 and it was reported in the B & M Employee Magazine that the Cheshire got one between Boston and Bellows Falls. It did not last too long. The 1947 P-S cars may have been assigned sporadically to the Red Wing and Montrealer/Washingtonian. By the time the F unit and RPO and one or two coaches train was running in day service the B & M had disposed of all of its conventional passenger carrying cars (except the 4 1954 P-S sleepers), so those coaches were New Haven cars. The B & M ended food service and sold its restaurant lounges early in 1957. The 1947 P-S combines and coaches were pulled from service in mid-1958 and sold to an equipment broker who sold them to the Wabash. The American Flyers lasted about a year longer and older heavy weight cars closed out the conventional era of B & M Boston passenger service in October, 1959.

[bumthum]

Thank you for the picture, that will also come in handy, but I was referring to what I think are ex-New Haven cars. I read somewhere that the coaches received B&M maroon window bands with the remainder of the car being bare metal, or have I confused multiple classes of car?

[TomNelligan]

As noted above by Mr. Bear, the coaches used on the New York-Montreal Ambassador in the 1960s weren't ex-New Haven, they were current New Haven. Both the 8600 series coaches (silver sheathed with red window band) and the 8200 series coaches (black with red window band) were common on that train. Earlier, the B&M had its own lightweight passenger cars, but if you're thinking of the 1960s timeframe the cars in question were NH. The only non-RDC, non-Talgo B&M passenger equipment left at that point was the quartet of B&M sleepers used on the overnight Montrealer.

[jbvb]

I have a pretty complete post-WWII B&M passenger roster (with HO scale modeling info) here:

http://www.faracresfarm.com/jbvb/rr/bmrr/passenger.html

There's a bibliography which mentions several books with coverage of B&M streamline cars. Builder's photos are available for all types, and there have been quite a few in-service photos published in books (fewer are free on the web).

I've also got run-through train consist info here:

http://www.faracresfarm.com/jbvb/rr/run_thru.html

There is a lot more detail about train consists available if you're interested. See [email protected] (archives are open) or ask on one the NHRHTA forum.

[Pat Fahey]

HI
I found a shot of and ex New Haven 8630 coach going to scrap , Pat

[bumthum]

Ah... I see now. I had thought that the NH cars were actually purchased by B&M to replace the cars McGinnis sold. So the 1947 order P-S lightweight equipment would have the maroon window band with Boston and Maine above the windows, the car name on the plate centered below the windows and the car number on boards towards either end of the car under the windows? The NH equipment would have an orange window band and only have New Haven above the windows and the car number below (as in the photograph above)?

Also, I want to thank all of you for your replies, this is helping my research a great deal.

[jbvb]

I'm away from my references, but the big spotting difference between NH stainless-sheathed lightweight equipment and everybody else's (including B&M/MEC 1947 cars) is the rounded ends on the roof. The NH also had a square stainless plate with a herald (script originally, NH post-McGinnis, worms post-PC) at either end below the window band - the photo shows screwholes where it was removed, either by the MBTA or a fan who knew the car was to be scrapped.

[edbear]

The NH cars had a green window band which was repainted orange in the McGinnis era.

[eastwind]

bumthum,

The 16 coaches edbear mentioned above were 56-seat chair cars with 10-seat smoking lounges.

"The cars were delivered (eight to each railroad) in June and July of 1947 from the Osgood Bradly works of P-S at Worcester, Mass. as lot 6778, drawing W-46352...the pier panels painted a dark green and unpainted stainless steel roofs....The B&M cars were sold to the WABASH in 1957....All of the MEC cars were sold to the MISSOURI PACIFIC in 1960 and...in 1969, all were sold with most going to Mexico." (from The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 10, page 121.)

All eight of the B&M cars were named after birds. The eight MEC cars had New England Native American tribal names such as PASSAMAQUODDY.
Here is a picture of one of them, B&M # 015, CHICKADEE. Obviously, the pier panels were repainted and the cars were renumbered at some time after delivery.
Hope this helps.

[bmcdr]

Actually, both the B&M and MEC cars were delivered with maroon window bands, the MEC cars were re-painted with dark green in the mid 1950's when the MEC started painting their equipment green instead of maroon. I would also like to point out that these cars were never re-numbered, they spent their whole time on the B&M-MEC in the number series they were delivered in. They are as follows.

B&M DINER-LOUNGE - (70) BALD EAGLE (71) HERMIT THRUSH
B&M COMBINE - (3800) PURPLE FINCH (3801) BLUE JAY
B&M COACH - (4800) BOBOLINK (4801) ROBIN (4802) HUMMINGBIRD (4803) BLACKBIRD (4804) BLUEBIRD (4805) ORIOLE (4806) CHICKADEE
(4807) SNOWBIRD

MEC DINER-LOUNGE - (15) MERRYMEETING (16) ARUNDEL
MEC COMBINE - (540) LUMBER KING (541) FOREST QUEEN
MEC COACH - (240) ALAMOOSOOK (241) WEBHANNET (242) KATAHDIN (243) PARMACHENEE (244) SAGADAHOC (245) ABENAKI (246) KINEO
(247) PASSAMAQUODDY

[eastwind]

Actually, both the B&M and MEC cars were delivered with maroon window bands, the MEC cars were re-painted with dark green in the mid 1950's when the MEC started painting their equipment green instead of maroon. I would also like to point out that these cars were never re-numbered, they spent their whole time on the B&M-MEC in the number series they were delivered in.

David, I defer to your superior knowledge. You have actual experience. I have only the book to go by. *sigh*

--Stephen

[Engineer Spike]

Didn't the unscrupulous sale of these cars land McGinnis in prison?

[edbear]

The sale of the eight coaches and two combines did indeed send McGinnis and two others to prison, Danbury I believe, for sentences that were a bit longer than what Martha Stewart got. They were officers of the Boston and Maine and officers of International Railway Car Co. B & M sold the cars to International for $25,000 each. International resold the cars, same day I think, for $50,000 each. As officers of both companies, they were supposed to seek competitive bids in the B & M's sale transaction and they did not. The sales were conducted in 1958; the trial and sentencing happened in 1966.