Tragic derailment of corridor train

[AEM7AC920]

Wow now I'm curious as to if there were any false indications given by the signal system. I still am shocked that 2 experienced engineers and 1 trainee may have all been distracted possibly.

[FCM2829]

Speculation at this point, however...

"Look at the skid marks to the right of the cars.... It drives home for me the idea that a truck picked the switch. It was likely the rear of the 2nd car. The front of the 2nd car pushed the 1st car off the tracks, and the 1st car twisted & lifted the loco, even one foot could do it, off the trucks, and it flipped over once it was not resting on the trucks properly."

Unlikely. There is no way an LRC coach could lift or twist an F40 off of its trucks, unless it already was airborne off of a bridge.
More likely, the No. 1 track switch was in the closed position (i.e. not lined up for a diverging route), and at 67mph, this would be enough for the F40 jump the tracks and keep going on its diverging route (straight off the right of way and into some buildings). The train seems to have made it through the first switch on its diverging route (leaving track 2 diverging onto track 1), but failed to negotiate the second half of the interlocking.

What a horrible way to go, for everybody involved.

[MBTA1016]

As been said previously bless the families of those who were lost.
Just out of curiosity(I dont want to bring up the families after this question) but what age is the youngest child of each of the engineers families?
Note to mod: feel free to delete if it's to personal.

[Silverliner II]

The Canadian Transportation Safety Board held a press conference this morning. The indications from the event recorder (black box) shows the train was going 67 mph when it took the crossover with no signs of any attempt to slow down. While we may have a better idea of what happened, we still do not know why it happened and may not for a while, if ever.

And the crossover in question is a 15mph crossover....

Wow now I'm curious as to if there were any false indications given by the signal system. I still am shocked that 2 experienced engineers and 1 trainee may have all been distracted possibly.

A friend of mine in Ontario said that CTV News reports that initial tests show the signal system was working properly. The questions that investigators acknowledge they won't be able to answer are "Who was operating the train" and "did some type of distraction cause all three people in the cab to miss the distant and home signal indication?"

The signals at Aldershot would have given even more advance warning. With a 15mph crossover, the home signal would have likely been a "Slow To Clear", with the distant being a "Clear To Slow" (Slow Clear and Approach Slow for the U.S. folks)... and if it wasn't damaged, the locomotive camera would tell that story.

[Ken V]

A friend of mine in Ontario said that CTV News reports that initial tests show the signal system was working properly.

Before we go too far with this, the TSB representative said this was just the initial test to determine if the signals were working and more in-depth testing would be needed to establish if the system was fully functional. There has also been no mention of a locomotive camera in any of the media so I am assuming there wasn't one.

[scoostraw]

More likely, the No. 1 track switch was in the closed position (i.e. not lined up for a diverging route), and at 67mph, this would be enough for the F40 jump the tracks and keep going on its diverging route (straight off the right of way and into some buildings). The train seems to have made it through the first switch on its diverging route (leaving track 2 diverging onto track 1), but failed to negotiate the second half of the interlocking.

Not necessarily. At that speed the switches could have been aligned properly for a crossover move, but the excessive speed could have caused the locomotive to literally careen off the rails.

[scoostraw]

I still am shocked that 2 experienced engineers and 1 trainee may have all been distracted possibly.

An argument could be made that 3 people in the cab is too many. All it takes is some topic of conversation (even work related) to take the attention off the task at hand. We'll never know if this is what happened, but it makes you wonder.

[AEM7AC920]

The rule is 4 people allowed in the cab at a time but most railroads only allow one with a student engineer running. I don't know anything about VIA rail but I'm curious as to why they run with 2 engineers off the bat.

[CHTT1]

The locomotive crew on VIA trains perform the duties of the operating crew, i.e. both conductor and engineer. Personnel in the passenger cars perform passenger care duties and have no operating duties, except for opening doors.

[Silverliner II]

A friend of mine in Ontario said that CTV News reports that initial tests show the signal system was working properly.

Before we go too far with this, the TSB representative said this was just the initial test to determine if the signals were working and more in-depth testing would be needed to establish if the system was fully functional. There has also been no mention of a locomotive camera in any of the media so I am assuming there wasn't one.

I did say also that it was initial tests; I wasn't implying that was the final conclusion. Also, the rebuilt locomotives were equipped with cameras; the media just may not have mentioned that.

[timberley]

Also, the rebuilt locomotives were equipped with cameras; the media just may not have mentioned that.

This one may not have been. According to VIA's rebuild program, the F40s will be receiving a "digital camera video recorder for improved reliability and safety". However, this was not installed in the earlier rebuilds (I believe it is to be retroactively installed). So 6444 may not have had one of the cameras. I have it in mind that it did not...

[Silverliner II]

Also, the rebuilt locomotives were equipped with cameras; the media just may not have mentioned that.

This one may not have been. According to VIA's rebuild program, the F40s will be receiving a "digital camera video recorder for improved reliability and safety". However, this was not installed in the earlier rebuilds (I believe it is to be retroactively installed). So 6444 may not have had one of the cameras. I have it in mind that it did not...

Oh boy....

[scoostraw]

The camera probably wouldn't have added much to what we already know. A voice recorder on the other hand would have been really helpful I think.

[justalurker66]

The camera probably wouldn't have added much to what we already know. A voice recorder on the other hand would have been really helpful I think.

The two key facts that should have been caught on camera are the exact signal indications visible to the crew and the positioning of the switches. If there was some failure that was undetected by the trackside equipment it should be visible on the video.

[25Hz]

67 over a 15 mph switch, all bets are off there. I think there may still have been a switch problem. The speed also explains the damage to the locomotive, which is quite extensive.