Lines West/Lines East?

[truman]

In stories relating to the Pennsy, I have often seen the term "Lines West" and also, but less frequently, "Lines East".
So the question is, west (or east) of what or where?

[ecouter]

I've never heard it expressed about the PRR. For New York Central the east/west dividing point was Buffalo. Guessing, I would say Pittsburgh for PRR.

[inch53]

The east/west dividing line was Pittsburgh for the Pennsy.
inch

[rnetzlof]

I've seen some old PRR documents which refer to "Lines West of Pittsburgh and Erie".

From sometime around 1870 to 1917, the PRR's holdings west of Pittsburgh and Erie were owned and operated by the Pennsylvania Company, a Pennsylvania corporation created just for that purpose. Remember that the original push to build the Pennsylvania Railroad was to funnel traffic to the port of Philadelphia. That, to counter the growing importance of New York, fostered by the Erie Canal and later the New York Central.

According to Schotter's history of the PRR, the PRR wanted to pick up traffic which was going north to the lakes, then east through New York state to the port of New York. One of their first attempts was to "encourage friendly relations" with railroads such as the Pittsburgh, Ft. Wayne and Chicago.

Lo and behold, even though they had assisted the PFW&C in several ways, they found the Ft Wayne was surveying a route of their own into PA, intending to connect to other railroads. At that, PRR bought a pile of PFW&C stock, leased the PFW&C. Now they were in a position to direct the Fort Wayne where to deliver their freight, so as to benefit the PRR and Philadelphia.

Similarly, farther to the south, they acquired an interest in the Pittsburg, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis. Both those were not a single railroad, but an amalgamation of numerous railroads operated under leases. Rather than add to the bookkeeping burden in the PRR's offices in Philadelphia, and perhaps to keep Pennsylvania politicians off their back, they incorporated the Pennsylvania Company to run the western lines.

Eventually, for whatever reasons, PRR decided to transfer the leases and ownership from the Pennsylvania Company to the PRR. However, the term "Lines West" lived on for decades after that.

Bob Netzlof

[Allen Hazen]

There's some discussion in (one of) Al Stauffer's "Pennsy Power" books. Lines West management was separate enough from Lines East that there were separate mechanical departments who proposed different steam locomotive designs: the one I remember is that the standard six-wheel switcher in the 20th C was a Lines East design, and that Lines West had wanted something bigger more powerful and -- one assumes -- more expensive.

[Alloy]

Thanks for the info. I have skimmed through various histories of the Pennsylvania railroad in search of data about the Cincinnati and Muskingham Valley, but somehow I missed this. It may be similiar to the B&O, and the B&O Southwest, which I discovered looking at an 1898 railroad map of Ohio. I had always considered the Pennsylvania to be an empire that was directed from Philadelphia, but at least before 1917, this may not have been the case. Where would the the "lines west" central headquarters have been? Somewhere other than Philadelphia?

[truman]

There's some discussion in (one of) Al Stauffer's "Pennsy Power" books. Lines West management was separate enough from Lines East that there were separate mechanical departments who proposed different steam locomotive designs: the one I remember is that the standard six-wheel switcher in the 20th C was a Lines East design, and that Lines West had wanted something bigger more powerful and -- one assumes -- more expensive.

That explains things then. I have a book, and in it a photo of a locomotive equipped with, as the caption states a "lines west" tender. When I first saw the phrase, I thought perhaps "lines west" was a supplier of equipment. Like saying Jordan Spreader or Russel snowplow.