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Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
 #594276  by CLamb
 
What route to New England was used before the Hudson River tunnels were constructed? I assumed passengers were ferried with Exhange Place as one terminal but where was the other ferry terminal?
 #594288  by CarterB
 
Well if you are talking about the Pennsylvania Railroad and its predecessors to Exchange Place...ferries at one time or other ran to Cortland Street, Desbrosses Street, 23rd Street, and 34th Street in Manhattan, Fulton St and Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn. Passengers pre Hell Gate Bridge and Penn Station could then go to Grand Central Station (Before GCT) to go on to NE.
Some trains were put on car floats from Jersey City to the Bronx. (notably the Federal Express)

However, there were also some B&O trains, after 1889, that ran through, avoiding NYC,(Philly, Bethlehem, Easton, Maybrook,Poughkeepsie, Northhampton) and on to Boston,via the B&O, Reading, PRR, L&HR, CNE&W, NYNH&H, and B&M over the Poughkeepsie Bridge. http://lhr.railfan.net/BO92TT.htm

And for three years in the teens,the PRR famous Federal Express ran this route.
 #594367  by Nacho66
 
That looks like an amazingly slow train!
I mean, leaving Philly around 6PM and not arriving into Boston until 8:20 the next morning?
And, taking almost 4 hours to go from Wash. DC to Philly?
I'd bet the PRR/New Haven train was faster even with ferries/car floats at Manhattan.
Anyone know?
 #594467  by BaltOhio
 
Through DC-Boston trains (e.g., the "Federal Express") were carried on a carferry (the "Maryland", as I recall) between JC and the Bronx, but I don't know the precise locations of the carferry terminals at either end. On the NH end, it could have been Oak Point or the NH's original terminal on the Harlem River near Willis Ave.
 #595101  by timz
 
That book of Salignac pics ("New York Rises") includes a 1909 view up the East River from the Brooklyn Bridge, showing a ferryload of passenger cars (incl an open-platform obs) on their way to the Bronx. They're not on the "Maryland", tho.

The 6/11 public timetable shows two trains each way: one train leaves Newark at 2245 and the next time shown is 0143 at Stamford. The southbound Federal arrives Harlem River at 0155 and the next time shown is 0425 at Newark. The Colonial leaves Newark at 1233; next time shown is 1517 at South Norwalk. Southbound Colonial arrives Harlem River at 1435, arrives Newark 1643. For all four trains the timetable adds "This train does not run out of Jersey City Station and has no connection from New York."

Dubin says the Federal shifted to the Poughkeepsie bridge in 1912-- he doesn't say, but it probably ran via Trenton?
 #595641  by pumpers
 
Nacho66 wrote:That looks like an amazingly slow train!
I mean, leaving Philly around 6PM and not arriving into Boston until 8:20 the next morning?
And, taking almost 4 hours to go from Wash. DC to Philly?
I'd bet the PRR/New Haven train was faster even with ferries/car floats at Manhattan.
Anyone know?
Well, I claim this was pretty fast. This was 1892. Before the northeast corridor (NY to Washington) was electrified by the PRR around 1936, the best PRR train Washington to NY (e.g. the Congressional) took about ~4:15. Anyway, I don't have the Washington to Phil time, but by milepost this is 3/5 of the distance (~135 out of ~225 miles). So Washington to PHil. would be 3/5 of 4:15 which is about 2:35. And in 1892, over 40 years earlier, the schedule we were talking about (via the B&O route) it took 3:05 one way and 3:35 the other. Not that much worse for over 40 years earlier. (even today Amtrak takes between 1:30 and 1:50 to get Wash. to Phil -- 1892 was only twice this time).

Regarding Boston, the 1892 bridge route Washington to Boston was 17-1/2 hours. In 1952, at the height of PRR and New Haven power, the shorter route via NYC and Hell gate bridge took 8:30 or 8:45. http://kc.pennsyrr.com/passops/download ... form76.pdf 1892 was only twice as long, 60 years earlier. JS
it would be interesting to see the PRR/New Haven times with carfloats in ~1890, if anyone has them.
 #600397  by fredct
 
Related question... kinda...

I was on the Triboro... nee RFK... Bridge last night and I saw a passenger train running south over Randall's Island (south of the Hell's Gate bridge, etc). Just curious about how Amtrak decides to use the West Side tracks or go via the Queens/Hell's Gate route. Do they split the traffic for capacity reasons? Is one used for south and the other north? Is one used for some routes and the other for others?
 #600453  by BaltOhio
 
fredct wrote:Related question... kinda...

I was on the Triboro... nee RFK... Bridge last night and I saw a passenger train running south over Randall's Island (south of the Hell's Gate bridge, etc). Just curious about how Amtrak decides to use the West Side tracks or go via the Queens/Hell's Gate route. Do they split the traffic for capacity reasons? Is one used for south and the other north? Is one used for some routes and the other for others?
if I understand the question, you're talking about two different routes and services. The West Side Manhattan line is used only by the Empire Corridor services (NY-Albany-Buffalo), and Hell Gate by the NE Corridor (DC-NY-New Haven-Boston, etc.). The twain don't meet, although technically they could in a pinch, using the West Side-Spuyten Duyvil-Mott Haven-Woodlawn-New Rochelle route.
 #600642  by CarterB
 
Regarding the "Federal Express Route":

"The "Steamer Maryland Route" originally established in 1876 for handling the heavy traffic in connection with the Centennial Exposition at Philadelphia. In this service the "Maryland" was used for carrying the trains from the rail terminal at Mott haven around through the East River and the Upper Bay to a landing convenient to the Pennsylvania tracks in Jersey City. Service via the hell Gate Bridge Route was inaugurated in the new Federal Express April 1, 1917, this being followed by the Colonial Express on April 30, 1917, and through trains to various Western points. With the construction of the hell Gate Bridge and its connecting rail lines to join the tracks of the New Haven Railroad with those of the Long Island Railroad, and through the latter, the Pennsylvania lines, the time schedule between points on the New Haven and Philadelphia has been reduced approximately one hour."

Note: Steamer Maryland 1093 ton, could carry 8 passenger cars --Mott Haven to Jersey City transfer steamer began service 1876 for the Philadelphia Centennial Exposition
source: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ny/state/hi ... 5/pt3.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=cFR56p ... &ct=result

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 94689FD7CF

http://books.google.com/books?id=ki5LAA ... &ct=result

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 94699FD7CF

http://www.prrths.com/Hagley/PRR1876%20April%2006.pdf

http://history.vineyard.net/photos/vh2/V25402.HTM
 #600682  by JimBoylan
 
What was the Steamer "Maryland" doing after it was replaced by the Perryville-Havre de Grace Susquehanna River bridge about 1852 and the 1876 Centennial service mentioned in the above posts?
 #600697  by CarterB
 
There were two "Maryland" ships, One built 1854 burned in Bronx 1888. Second Maryland launched Oct 1889. Ran until Hell Gate Bridge opened. Became a barge. Not sure of what happened to her after that.

BTW. When the Maryland was out of service the steam ship "Express" was used.