Penn Central Loco Colors.

Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

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oldrailbug
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Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by oldrailbug » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:21 am

Hello there, I am sorry if my first post and question is a bit stupid, I have been watching a DVD about Penn Central RR and they mentioned that the new loco colors for the PC just after amalgamation was Brunswick Green, maybe I am getting color blind in my old age but to me every diesel loco looks Black, could someone shed some light on this as I think I am missing something.
Regards
Dave.

pbass
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by pbass » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:45 pm

PC painted all locomotives in black,it was cost effective and blended well with the logo in white.time,washing,soil and fading may have given an otherwise different appearence.they were BLACK.

oldrailbug
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by oldrailbug » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:59 pm

Thanks for that pbass at least now I know I am not color blind and my monitor is OK.
Regards
Dave.

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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by chuchubob » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:37 am

PRR 9069 is Brunswick Green, although it appears to be nearly black. That said, PC locos were black.

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scottychaos
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by scottychaos » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:12 am

I found some references that perhaps the first unit to ever wear new PC paint was perhaps painted Brunswick Green! not black..
but oddly, I cant find a single color photo on-line to confirm this..

SD40 6072 was painted in the PC scheme for the "opening ceremonies" of PC, and displayed on that day. February 1, 1968.
a few weeks later, the first *brand new* PC locos arrived, U33C's 6540-6559, and they were black..

B&W photo from 1968:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc6072s.jpg

Color photo, but from 1973, 5 years later:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc6072goa.jpg

does maybe look greenish! but that could just be dirt..we need a good photo from when the unit was freshly painted..
considering the unit was prominantly displayed on 2/1/1968, it seems likely there must be color photos..somewhere..

There are historic references/documents that say PC was originally planning to use green, but finances changed those plans..
black was cheaper..
PC did repaint a few E-units in PRR tuscan (full repaints, not just patched PRR units)..perhaps it was just a case of "leftover paint" though,
and not an official decree..

So its possible there were one, or a very few, full repaints of PC units in green..
but that's one green unit out of thousands of black units..
only one is specifically mentioned as *maybe* being in Brunswick Green, (which almost looks black anyway)
SD40 6072, but I havent seen any photographic proof of that yet..
might not be true..need a good color photo from 1968!

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pbass
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by pbass » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:48 pm

You maybe correct Scott,I worked for PC and all I ever saw in repaints or new were black with white lettering if they were even lettered after repainting.Perhaps there was a can of green paint left over and it was used as a trial or just a whim.

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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by Allen Hazen » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:47 pm

I can imagine a greenish tint to PC 6072 in the second photo Scot linked to, but then the trucks and fuel tank (which would, I assume, have been black even if the superstructure was "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel") look the same color. So the photo is consistent with the hypothesis that 6072 was straight black.
--
The initial press release probably said "green": the Tyco (toy train manufacturer) took it at its word, and sold train sets through the 1970s with green Penn Central F-7 locomotives: quite light green, as it happens.

dti406
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by dti406 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:56 pm

When black fades it does achieve a green tint as black paint is in essence all paint colors in the spectrum mixed together get black. If green is the predominate tint in the mixture then as it fades it will get a green tint.

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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by kilroy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:50 pm

Some of the PRR units never were painted and were still in Brunswick Green as PC.

Here is a G still in Brunwick Green with Gold stripe. Only the keystone was painted out.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2349356

I'm 99% certain this CR GP-40 is still in Brunswick Green. She has gold numbers like the PRR and not white of PC and this is in the Conrail era. I would be shocked if PC painted the unit black and then applied gold instead of white numbers. Since Brunswick green was 9 parts black and 1 part Forrest Green (or so it was joked), I could see the Penn Central saving money and not painting some of the units.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1560803
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scottychaos
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by scottychaos » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:28 pm

kilroy wrote:
I'm 99% certain this CR GP-40 is still in Brunswick Green. She has gold numbers like the PRR and not white of PC and this is in the Conrail era. I would be shocked if PC painted the unit black and then applied gold instead of white numbers. Since Brunswick green was 9 parts black and 1 part Forrest Green (or so it was joked), I could see the Penn Central saving money and not painting some of the units.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1560803
Those arent gold numbers on the side of the cab..just very dirty white numbers.
another photo:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1323232
its white..

also, did some googling.. 3210 was built new for PC in late 1968.
and..PRR never owned any GP40's.
http://www.trainweb.org/jaydeet/gp40.htm
sorry..
Scot
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by Mr.S » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:32 am

Was there a PC EMD that was painted in a light green or - JADE GREEN - what was the road No. on that locomotive?

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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by 3rdrail » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:46 am

When it's my turn, I wondered if that "Brunswick Black" was the same "Green" used by the New Haven on it's diesels with a "green" and "orange" livery ? I personally always thought that the Penn Central black with large all white lettering was about the most handsome, rugged scheme of any locomotive that I have seen. As mentioned, although the black stayed pretty much the same, the white lettering did get a little smudgy soon.
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by Backshophoss » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:17 pm

Back in the PC era of the "Metro Region", now MNR, most of the running FL-9's were patched with PC logos and #'s.
Very few were painted "Black Dip"(that's how some refered to the paint job),at best 2-6 were done,
As NY State started to give $$$ for commuter service,some FL-9's were "reconditioned"(cleaned up inside) at Harmon,
they were repainted to the "Empire scheme" colors of yellow nose+ roof,blue bodysides,black underframe + trucks.

NYC jade green was used on 40ft boxcars used as steam heat supplies at outer terminals,retaining NYC marks till scrapping.
The same color was used on 50ft boxcars after the merger.
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by TomNelligan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Was there a PC EMD that was painted in a light green or - JADE GREEN - what was the road No. on that locomotive?
Are you thinking of the one-of-a-kind New York Central E-unit that was painted jade green in the mid-1960s?
I wondered if that "Brunswick Black" was the same "Green" used by the New Haven on it's diesels with a "green" and "orange" livery ?
PRR/PC Brunswick Green was really, really, really dark and looked pretty much like black unless the engine was clean and sunlit. The NH's Hunter Green was dark too, but not to that extreme, and looked green in any light.

Railjunkie
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Re: Penn Central Loco Colors.

Post by Railjunkie » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:28 am

Brunswick green formula 10 gal of black to a quart of green:>

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