What's so wrong about liking trains?

[3rdrail]

Hi Lurker !
I'm not sure I'm buying it for the most part. Are there incidents where rail fans are completely in the right bothering nobody and following the rules who are harassed ? I'm sure that there is. However, the sense that I get falls mostly into two categories;
The first category is by far the most common in my opinion, and this is the fan who is set up and approached by police or security for an interview. Please note my wording as I was very careful what words I used. This fan was not "harassed", "threatened", or otherwise mistreated. In the eyes of many, to be asked what you are doing by persons in authority is tantamount to being "harassed". In many instances, whether the interview ends peacefully or if the fan starts to aggressively fight for his cause, then end is often the same- a feeling of harassment. Put simply, a policeman could walk up to many folks to merely carry on a conversation and they would feel "harassed". The second less common variety is the fan who wants the photo but also wants to test the system for whatever reason. They and the media often tell a carefully selective story to accept converts to their respective causes. A loud shouting exhibition disrupting a train station and it's legitimate passengers gets reported by both as "a rail fan who was only trying to take a few photos got arrested." Whether your average rail buff knows it, there's a reason why the police want to know who you are if you are seen photographing trains, stations, etc. Threshold inquiries have for many years been authorized by the U.S.Supreme Court. I haven't seen a rail fan cause it to be revised or overturned yet.

[justalurker66]

The first category is by far the most common in my opinion, and this is the fan who is set up and approached by police or security for an interview. Please note my wording as I was very careful what words I used. This fan was not "harassed", "threatened", or otherwise mistreated. In the eyes of many, to be asked what you are doing by persons in authority is tantamount to being "harassed". In many instances, whether the interview ends peacefully or if the fan starts to aggressively fight for his cause, then end is often the same- a feeling of harassment. Put simply, a policeman could walk up to many folks to merely carry on a conversation and they would feel "harassed".

When one is doing something legal having an employee or officer insinuate or state that one's actions are not legal is wrong. Sure, strike up a conversation but don't interfere with the railfanning and don't lie to the public creating rules that are not there. What's a railfan to do? Any objection to instruction becomes an issue of "not obeying instructions". The fan may not have been breaking any rules before approached but "contempt of employee" gets them in trouble.

Employees and officers who know the rules and enforce them in an appropriate friendly manner are not a problem. Those that create their own rules and create a situation where "that person didn't follow instructions" where instructions were not needed have harassed. (BTW: I was referring to more than just police contact with railfans. But police contact can be generated by other employees who don't know the rules and want to write their own.)

The second less common variety is the fan who wants the photo but also wants to test the system for whatever reason. They and the media often tell a carefully selective story to accept converts to their respective causes. A loud shouting exhibition disrupting a train station and it's legitimate passengers gets reported by both as "a rail fan who was only trying to take a few photos got arrested."

Some systems have such a poor record with following their own rules that riding the system is testing enough. Pull out a camera on these systems - even if they have "photography allowed" rules - and you might as well be waiving around a gun based on the reaction of employees.

Whether your average rail buff knows it, there's a reason why the police want to know who you are if you are seen photographing trains, stations, etc. Threshold inquiries have for many years been authorized by the U.S.Supreme Court. I haven't seen a rail fan cause it to be revised or overturned yet.

Often that reason is "I'm a officer and you will not question my authority". The major cases have been settled long before they get through the courts - with apologies and financial settlements in some cases. For those railfans who don't win they may have reached the point where it isn't worth fighting. Suing a company costs money.

Anyways, we are a few steps beyond the topic. There's nothing wrong with liking trains.

[Gadfly]

But the key thing here, and the question asked, was What so wrong with liking trains. Answer: Nothing! But it CAN be taken to extremes and THAT is what causes the trouble.

Like the fan who thought it would be OK to fix up a walkie talkie ON the railroad frequency so he could talk to the trains. That is dangerous and, not to forget, ILLEGAL! Can get you into a heap of deep doo doo!!! I caught him at a local ham radio 'fest bragging how he could talk to "them trains". The railroad dicks had a NICE, LONG talk with him!!!

Or the fella that walzed into my station one morning and started rifling thru the waybills. HUH? WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU"RE DOIN', BUB! GIDDOUTTA THERE!!!!
You see, first of all he was TRESPASSING by BEING there (I had left the door open briefly so the local's crew could go in and out to begin work. Next. It is ILLEGAL to share info on waybills with the public. It is privileged information that only the Railroad and the companies concerned are to see. I had to threaten him with the railroad cops to make him stop. Apparently one of the regular clerks at the station "petted" this guy and let him thread up bills at times so he could "play railroad". He couldn't pass the physical, so he pretended to "work". Well, if the Trainmaster were to pop in and catch this guy, it would be MY job! *I* was the agent that day, working off the Extra Board. OH, how he whined and cried about how unfair it was, even made a few smart remarks before leaving. Before I thought how it would hurt his feelings (yes, I knew the guy), I popped off, 'YOU gotta go! The difference in YOU and ME is, this is MY job, you are a pretender!" I wish i hadn't said it, but I couldn't take it back. What could I do? Risk being taken out of service over a rules violation? He never spoke to me ever again 'til the day he died.

Oh, there's WORSE, believe me!

[Nelson Bay]

Or the fella that walzed into my station one morning and started rifling thru the waybills........

This guy was definitely a foamer. Our moderator mentioned a few posts ago that the difference between a railfan and a foamer was "not much". There's quite a difference but most foamers don't notice it.

RFE: Bbcode

[justalurker66]

Railfanning seems to be a hobby of extremes. The worst "rail fans" get the press along with the worst response to "rail fans". The reality is that most rail fans are somewhere in between. Some simply like trains and occasionally take pictures of them. Others get obsessive about certain trains and make more of an effort to follow them.

I prefer to be more active but fall short when it comes to criminal trespass. I'm not that bold (or stupid). I am considering buying a second camera so I can shoot video while taking photographs. I've missed capturing a few things because I had to decide between photo or video on my present camera.

"Foamer" has become a derogatory term for railfan but I don't believe that label should be applied to everyone who likes trains. But using derogatory terms is so easy.

[John_Perkowski]

Moderator's Note:

Temporarily locked while I check with Otto where this thread belongs.