Of Vandals and Visigoths

[mick]

Look at any photos of freight trains before 1999, you will not see the graffiti that you do now, I know graffiti was around before the internet. I grew up in Boston in the 70's, of course there was graffiti, but it was not as widespread as it is now. It was the exception.
Anyway, I do my part to eradicate it, I know I can't do it on my own,but I know more than a few taggers are dissapointed when I squirt some Deep Woods Off or WD-40 (depending what time of year it is) on their freshly painted masterpieces, rendering them a gooey dripping blob. Also, any time I see a tagger at work out on the rails, I immediately report them to the dispatcher. But I don't say they are tagging, I say "it looks like they are breaking into the boxcars". That gets the cops right out there, and more than a few have been arrested this way for breaking and entering, a felony, not the misdemeanor charge of tagging.

[goodnightjohnwayne]

Look at any photos of freight trains before 1999, you will not see the graffiti that you do now, I know graffiti was around before the internet. I grew up in Boston in the 70's, of course there was graffiti, but it was not as widespread as it is now. It was the exception.

Nonsense. Graffiti of freight cars was quite widespread, perhaps even prevalent in urban areas, long before the 1990s. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it was more prevalent in the early 1980s than in recent years. This is not a new problem arising from the internet era.

Anyway, I do my part to eradicate it, I know I can't do it on my own,but I know more than a few taggers are dissapointed when I squirt some Deep Woods Off or WD-40 (depending what time of year it is) on their freshly painted masterpieces, rendering them a gooey dripping blob. Also, any time I see a tagger at work out on the rails, I immediately report them to the dispatcher. But I don't say they are tagging, I say "it looks like they are breaking into the boxcars". That gets the cops right out there, and more than a few have been arrested this way for breaking and entering, a felony, not the misdemeanor charge of tagging.

First of all, your own acts might also be construed as vandalism. An individual spraying a liquid on the side of freight car looks like an act of vandalism.

Moreover, your self professed acts of false reporting are illegal and far more serious than any legal offenses that are being committed by these vandals. If you are called to make a statement about what you've witnessed, do you continue to lie? Just how far would you take these lies? Have you been called to testify against the individuals you have falsely accused of breaking and entering? Do you continue to lie under oath?

[TPR37777]

Also, any time I see a tagger at work out on the rails, I immediately report them to the dispatcher. But I don't say they are tagging, I say "it looks like they are breaking into the boxcars". That gets the cops right out there, and more than a few have been arrested this way for breaking and entering, a felony, not the misdemeanor charge of tagging.

So mick, you make knowingly false radio transmissions to a dispatcher during the course of your employment, which in turn leads to the false reporting of a crime, and that somehow makes you proud? I should think that it will also make you quickly unemployed, as your employer and the F.R.A. should both be immediately made aware of your boast forthright. You work for Pan Am Railways, correct? This would fall under a topic upon which I posted earlier, concerning the fantasy of authority that some railroad employees possess, something akin to delusions of grandeur. Mick, you must feel so powerful, having given a few teenagers felony arrests on their records, and having prevented them from getting jobs, loans, or even serving their country years later. Of course, what would you know about serving your country, right? Honor? Integrity? Dignity?

[mick]

How am I lying ? I'm not lying at all, I say it "looks like" they are breaking in . Which they very well could be, how do I know? The fact is, they are where they are not supposed to be, many of them have and do mess around with cars, (turn angle cocks, pop off handbrakes, open hopper gates, plug doors or tank car outlets), so they deserve anything they get. Don't like it? Tough.
Serving my country? That has nothing to do with this.

About my comment when graffiti started apperaing in large quantities, go to any RR photo page(NERAIL, Fallen Flags, RR pics.net). Look up a year say, 1985, 1990, 1983, 88, 92 etc, look at the freight cars, you will be hard pressed to find one with noticeable graffiti. I don't mean little chalk scrawlings, either.

Have a nice day.

[John_Perkowski]

MODERATOR'S NOTICE:

I will not tolerate ad hominem attacks on this board.

Contact me by PM or email if you have new, relevant information for this thread. I'll re-open it.

[John_Perkowski]

Moderator's Note:

Unlocked at the request of Scharnhorst.

[scharnhorst]

I don't want to stur to much up in this boiling kettle as it is but A few guys are right about the number of cars lacking all the graffiti on them. I viewed over hundreds of hours of my own personel footage filmed between 1990 and 1998 and the numbers seem to add up that the avrage train of lets say 60 to 100 cars would have maybe 8 to 10 cars tops with graffiti on them. After 1999 it looks like almost every car is plastered some times the whole car top to bottom. A few friends in Canada had told me once that many Canadian Cars rareley get graffiti on them as long as they stay in Canada If the car crosses the boarder into the U.S. or down in Mexico there is a 80% chance that it will be taged in one for or anouther.

The most populer cars to be taged in the mid 90's seemed to be Boxcars and then for some strange reason people were hitting Stack and Well Cars, then people seemed to shift more to Covered Hoppers and Auto Racks with the occational Tank Car every now and then.

[justalurker66]

The most populer cars to be taged in the mid 90's seemed to be Boxcars and then for some strange reason people were hitting Stack and Well Cars, then people seemed to shift more to Covered Hoppers and Auto Racks with the occational Tank Car every now and then.

Perhaps just following the trend in car usage and the availability to be tagged?

[scharnhorst]

The most populer cars to be taged in the mid 90's seemed to be Boxcars and then for some strange reason people were hitting Stack and Well Cars, then people seemed to shift more to Covered Hoppers and Auto Racks with the occational Tank Car every now and then.

Perhaps just following the trend in car usage and the availability to be tagged?

don't know for sure. I could see Boxcars and Covered Hoppers being easy pary sents there not otfen in gated in locations. The harder targets would be Stack Cars and Tank Cars being there more often in locations that are fenced in so to say. A Tank car would be in my opinion would be high prize item if it was just stored out side a gated in industry. Stack cars in my opinion would be a hard one sents your looking at what almost 350 feet?? worth of car or longer if its a 5 unit set it would be a tough one sents someone would almost be sure to be cought tagging that unless its a gang of people hiting it at one time. Gondolas and Open Hoppers don't seem to get hit as much as I would assume that the cars are to dirty and covered with a lot of dust so paint would not stick to well there. Auto racks as we know often end up being stored where ever there is room on a sideing next to the main line lord knows how many miles from a yard so I could see people takeing a trip out to the country to tag one.

[LoadLimit]

The cars most people prize are reefers, they are flat, white canvas, that travel the country with a higher priority than most other cars. . Boxcars are the most important to most "graffiti artists" because they are generally going to see more travel than other cars, at least in the minds of these folks. You also have to understand that while there are graffiti writers who are very similar to people like you and I, in that they care greatly about the railroads, will call in things like people breaking into cars and things, (they just paint cars instead of watching them) the majority of the people who paint trains know nothing about trains, are getting their info about trains from other people like themselves, who know nothing about trains. They are as woefully ignorant about the workings of the railroad as most railfans are woefully ignorant of what drives these folks and what is going on with them.

Banning spraypaint sales will do absolutely nothing, look at Chicago, sale of aerosol paints in the city limits is banned, but it has one of the biggest graffiti problems in the country. The best way to deter people like this is to clean it off immediately, while I understand this is a huge task, that probably wont work, due to the nature of freight cars, it is simply the best way to do it. There are certain short lines that clean their cars immediately, such as PBRX (tyson foods reefers) or MRS, people seem to take to that, and avoid these cars, because I think the ultimate goal of these people is to have their graffiti exist for long periods of time, and travel the country for others to see. I think while there are other methods to fixing the problem, such as a simple fence, things of that nature, immediate cleaning is the best plan. I hope one day the railroads will understand that, and put it into effect.

[scharnhorst]

The cars most people prize are reefers, they are flat, white canvas, that travel the country with a higher priority than most other cars. . Boxcars are the most important to most "graffiti artists" because they are generally going to see more travel than other cars, at least in the minds of these folks. You also have to understand that while there are graffiti writers who are very similar to people like you and I, in that they care greatly about the railroads, will call in things like people breaking into cars and things, (they just paint cars instead of watching them) the majority of the people who paint trains know nothing about trains, are getting their info about trains from other people like themselves, who know nothing about trains. They are as woefully ignorant about the workings of the railroad as most railfans are woefully ignorant of what drives these folks and what is going on with them.

Banning spraypaint sales will do absolutely nothing, look at Chicago, sale of aerosol paints in the city limits is banned, but it has one of the biggest graffiti problems in the country. The best way to deter people like this is to clean it off immediately, while I understand this is a huge task, that probably wont work, due to the nature of freight cars, it is simply the best way to do it. There are certain short lines that clean their cars immediately, such as PBRX (tyson foods reefers) or MRS, people seem to take to that, and avoid these cars, because I think the ultimate goal of these people is to have their graffiti exist for long periods of time, and travel the country for others to see. I think while there are other methods to fixing the problem, such as a simple fence, things of that nature, immediate cleaning is the best plan. I hope one day the railroads will understand that, and put it into effect.

Railroads have tryed to put fences along there yards trouble is that these same vandles who tag the cars as well as thows who also brake into them to steal things will cut holes in the fence. The RR's don't have the time to fix holes its it a low priority when it comes down to maintaince which is affected the most during seasonal layoffs or economic depressions. Some states have issued laws banning the sale of spray paints to kids under the age of 18 I my self don't think the law works as they can always head out to there Pop's shed or the basement for these things. I think the real test would be is to have a Judge and a cort order to punish the people who do get cought make them buy the paint needed to repaint the railroad car(s) in question and make them repaint the car as it looked befor they taged it along with repainting the Data and Logos on the car(s) that they taged.

[John_Perkowski]

Moderator's Note:

We are wandering off from the topic of tagging cars. Thank you for your participation. I will split off the information on Conrail Boyz, and figure out an appropriate Forum to site it.

If you have relevant information to the topic of tagging cars, message me, and I will gladly unlock this thread. For now, though, we're done.