Of Vandals and Visigoths

[trainsinmaine]

I was driving by NMJ a few days ago, where there was parked a long string of boxcars on the PanAm (MEC) main. Almost all of them had griffiti on them.

I'm curious as to where this stuff originates. I used to be an elementary school art teacher; some of what's depicted displays genuine talent. That aside, it IS vandalism, it IS illegal, and I can't imagine how people get away with it. It takes time to create it; it can't be painted in the dark, and urban freight yards are usually well lighted. What's more, railroad police are often on the prowl looking for trespassers (I assume). I've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of griffitus-covered freight cars over the years.

Any insights anyone can share?

[v8interceptor]

I was driving by NMJ a few days ago, where there was parked a long string of boxcars on the PanAm (MEC) main. Almost all of them had griffiti on them.

I'm curious as to where this stuff originates. I used to be an elementary school art teacher; some of what's depicted displays genuine talent. That aside, it IS vandalism, it IS illegal, and I can't imagine how people get away with it. It takes time to create it; it can't be painted in the dark, and urban freight yards are usually well lighted. What's more, railroad police are often on the prowl looking for trespassers (I assume). I've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of griffitus-covered freight cars over the years.

Any insights anyone can share?

The railroads could not possibly afford enough security personnel to keep an eye on all their physical plant. There are thousands of miles of line and many of the places where railcars are spotted have no physical barriers preventing access so I see nothing surprising about this.......
Ever see Graffiti in plain sight on interstate highway overpasses?

[Hux]

I was goofing around on Google Earth one day, and started looking at the various "pins" for the links to photos. I don't remember what the specific locale was, but the series of pins were all photos of tagging spots. One of the photos had a link to a web site, and that web site was like railroad.net, with forums and photos regarding tagging. One photo I came across was from a graffiti type in Canada, and how he was out riding a four wheeler and came across a railroad spur in the woods. Upon that spur were dozens of boxcars in storage. Naturally he took it upon himself to decorate them. Many comments followed his post, pointing out places that were havens for tagging rolling stock, particularly storage areas.

In looking at the various photos posted here and on other sites, it is readily apparent that the wholesale tagging of rolling stock started about 20 years ago, about the time big box home centers started proliferating the landscape. Personally, I'd love to see spray paint eliminated completely.

[JCitron]

This tagging of objects reminds me of my old male cat. He used to "tag" every new thing we brought into the house.

I agree it's time that the big retail outlets stop selling spray pain, or restrict it to people with an ID number. This would put second thoughts on the selling party as well as the purchaser, and would also help with the other problem that goes with spray paint - huffing or sniffing the paint and propellents, which is very dangerous if not fatal when done in huge quantities.

John

[mick]

Without going into a huge rant about how much I despise graffiti, I think it really started becoming a problem (and it is a problem) around the time the internet started really taking off, about 1999 or so...even though graffiti was around in the 80's, it was concentrated in certain areas, you would not see whole trains and even locomotives plastered with this despicable nonsense. I think the saddest part about it is that many graffiti vandals are not even youths, they are adults in their 20's, 30's, even 40's. They should know better. Many are part of a group called the "63 cent" crew, you have probaply seen "ICH" on many cars, that is them.I know one of them has a clothing store in Nashua that sells "skater" apparel. I think it would be great if the Feds grabbed these guys using the RICO laws or something and take everything they own.Hopefully, as time passes grafitti will no longer be seen as rebellious and cool by these people, and it will fade away. Will they be 60 years old, out spray painting boxcars at night for old time sake? Fools.

[MCER401]

Hopefully, as time passes grafitti will no longer be seen as rebellious and cool by these people, and it will fade away. Will they be 60 years old, out spray painting boxcars at night for old time sake? Fools.

I think unfortunately it will just get passed along to the next generation. I recently had someone posting comments to my youtube videos asking "where do they park the auto racks?" and "when does FI-1 work at Gardner?" I always check out people's video lists before giving out any info. His was filled with hundreds of "tagging" videos, nearly all of them taken on RR property out west, spray painting rolling stock. The people doing the tagging were usually wearing masks or hoods and didn't show their faces, but it was all done in broad daylight with rap music playing in the background. The videos really glorified the vandalism.

I agree with previous posters that the only way to stop this is to greatly restrict the sale of spray paint.

[TPR37777]

Wow, the Constitution of the United States doesn't mean much to some people around here. Ban the sale of spray paint because a few people use it for illegal means? Whatever. The history of graffiti goes back thousands of years, and rolling stock was painted with it going back into the early part of the twentieth century. The modern era of graffiti really took off in the late 1960's, and in the 1970's entire trains were covered top to bottom in most urban areas but most notably in cities such as D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, and New York (or so I am told). Since then it has seen several resurgences in many parts of the country, its cyclical nature being tied to a host of factors including removal technology and the economy. Few people are ever charged with "tagging" offenses, the only exception being gang members in certain urban areas, especially during times of turf wars (mostly looking for intelligence from the arrestees regarding potential violence that is often foretold by the tags). Gangs don't generally tag rolling stock obviously, as it tends not to remain in the area, and as such the tags on trains tend to be of a more social, political, or artistic nature.

[MCER401]

Wow, the Constitution of the United States doesn't mean much to some people around here. Ban the sale of spray paint because a few people use it for illegal means? Whatever. The history of graffiti goes back thousands of years, and rolling stock was painted with it going back into the early part of the twentieth century. The modern era of graffiti really took off in the late 1960's, and in the 1970's entire trains were covered top to bottom in most urban areas but most notably in cities such as D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, and New York (or so I am told). Since then it has seen several resurgences in many parts of the country, its cyclical nature being tied to a host of factors including removal technology and the economy. Few people are ever charged with "tagging" offenses, the only exception being gang members in certain urban areas, especially during times of turf wars (mostly looking for intelligence from the arrestees regarding potential violence that is often foretold by the tags). Gangs don't generally tag rolling stock obviously, as it tends not to remain in the area, and as such the tags on trains tend to be of a more social, political, or artistic nature.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the "right to own spray paint" part of the constitution. In that case, you're absolutely right. Also, I'm sure it's free for railroads to paint their rolling stock in the scheme of their choice, so I'm sure they don't mind that you use it as your own personal canvas. There are lots of nice white cars, vans and trucks out there that would make much better art surfaces. Why not spray paint those with your art? Oh yeah, because you'd be arrested after causing thousands of dollars worth of damage to someone elses property. I'm sure you're also right that few people are charged with "tagging" offenses because the railroads don't mind people defacing their property, not because there is 1 RR cop for every 200 miles of road.

Wake up, it's not art. I've never seen a spray painted box car roll by and thought "wow, I'd love to buy that. That's real art." It's garbage, plain and simple.

[mick]

Wow, the Constitution of the United States doesn't mean much to some people around here. Ban the sale of spray paint because a few people use it for illegal means? Whatever. The history of graffiti goes back thousands of years, and rolling stock was painted with it going back into the early part of the twentieth century. The modern era of graffiti really took off in the late 1960's, and in the 1970's entire trains were covered top to bottom in most urban areas but most notably in cities such as D.C., Chicago, Philadelphia, and New York (or so I am told). Since then it has seen several resurgences in many parts of the country, its cyclical nature being tied to a host of factors including removal technology and the economy. Few people are ever charged with "tagging" offenses, the only exception being gang members in certain urban areas, especially during times of turf wars (mostly looking for intelligence from the arrestees regarding potential violence that is often foretold by the tags). Gangs don't generally tag rolling stock obviously, as it tends not to remain in the area, and as such the tags on trains tend to be of a more social, political, or artistic nature.

So you are saying the Constitution gives us the right to go out and deface and destroy other peoples property? What planet are you from? So, if you are right, I can go and spray paint whatever I want on my neighbor's house or car, and I am protected by the Constitution? What if I went out and painted a huge swastika on my house? On a boxcar? In a Jewish community? It's a political message, right? Am I protected by the Constitution? I think you are confusing Democracy with Anarchy. The fact that the ancient Egyptians and whoever wrote messages on the walls of caves has no relation to modern vandalism.
The government restricts the sale of all kinds of things legally.

[John_Perkowski]

Moderator's Note:

Please attack the position, not the person. Please also stay to the basic topic.

Thanks!

[John_Perkowski]

TPR3777,

Please note that at a bare minimum, tagging requires a miscreant to trespass onto railroad or industrial property and hazard his personal safety.

[justalurker66]

Wow, the Constitution of the United States doesn't mean much to some people around here. Ban the sale of spray paint because a few people use it for illegal means? Whatever.

I'm not sure where in the constitution the right to bear paint is found. Please don't say "freedom of speech", because that relates to the relationship between the government and the people and DOES NOT give anyone rights in non-political speech or where the government is not involved. (For example, the government doesn't own or run this forum. Otto and his helpers run this forum. No constitutional right exists requiring them to let anyone post here. Although there are complex laws that affect moderated sites the constitution doesn't affect operations.)

Taken to extreme, a government "ban" of the sale of spray paint is too heavy handed. Likewise a government subsidy that would make spray paint easier for intercity youths to obtain (perhaps even free) so they could express themselves is too far the other way. We have to find the middle ground.

The government restricts the sale of all kinds of things legally.

The government generally does not step in until the product is dangerous to the public. The (actual) constitutional right to bear arms is tempered by gun laws because people have born arms and done bad things. Age limits, licensing requirements, concealment, weapon power and when it can be loaded are all controlled. Many states restrict the sale of legal substances used to create illegal drugs. Alcohol and cigarette sales are restricted. All this because these things (entire paragraph) can kill the users and others.

Setting an age limit and/or quantity limit on spray paint would not be completely out of line. The drug aspect of spray paint (huffing) could lead to restrictions just as easily as the "likely use" argument. I really don't want to have to explain to the kid at WalMart why I need a case of assorted paint colors nor do I want to make multiple trips through the checkout to get enough to finish a project. But if it stops tagging restrictions could be the price society has to pay.

Some areas seem to be worse than others for graffiti ... even as seen on cars passing through. We'll probably see it continue until paint no longer sticks to trains.

[goodnightjohnwayne]

Graffiti has existed for thousands of years. Go to Pompeii, a city buried by a volcanic eruption nearly 2000 years ago, and you'll see that graffiti was probably even more widespread in ancient times than it is today. There are instances where the only surviving sources on ancient technology are fairly detailed graffiti drawings, scratched into stone. If graffiti disappeared during the "Dark Ages," it was only because widespread literacy disappeared as well, as trade and urban life dwindled.

The modern phenomenon associated with aerosol spray cans seems to date from around the beginning of the 1970s - long before the internet era. This short autobiographical sketch of "Taki 183" illustrates the beginnings of modern graffiti. It does seem to be quite appropriate that the vandals were inspired by the political campaign posters of the era.

http://www.taki183.net/#biography

Oddly enough, graffiti declined, and very nearly disappeared from the NYC Subways due to the efforts of David Gunn. I suspect that the graffiti issue had more to do with the public perception of disorder and lawlessness than the actual public safety threat posed by the vandals themselves. People felt unsafe in NYC during the 1970s and 80s, and the widespread vandalism was a visible reminder of that insecurity. In hindsight, the people who were spray painting the subway cars in the yards weren't the same people mugging the subway passengers.

As far as the vandalism of modern freight equipment in recent years, I've always seen widespread graffiti, before and after the internet came into wide use. I can't really tell if graffiti is on the rise, but it stands to reason that storage cars are more vulnerable than equipment that is in constant service. Perhaps we can all blame the current economic downturn for sidelining so much modern equipment?

I do find it disturbing that so many posters are so quick to vent against against "urban culture." Does it really matter which genre of music that graffiti vandals apparently listen to? I think it's time to step back from the issue, take a deep breath, and remember that graffiti occurred thousands of years before the invention of the aerosol spray can.

[Lincoln78]

Maybe it is a coincidence, but 30-40 years ago railroads and other property owners could defend their property a little more aggressively .

Now if a tagger gets injured on railroad or other property, they will probably sue, and maybe win.

[TPR37777]

Many of you can barely read, so maybe before you blast one of my posts you ought find someone smarter than you to interpret it for you (shouldn't be too hard), and then maybe you would be able to respond appropriately. When did I say graffiti was not a crime? When did I defend it? When did I say the railroads did not incur losses from it? My post was in English and the sentences weren't all that complex. Several people dated graffiti back to the 1980's and 1990's which is, of course, grossly inaccurate. I mentioned few people are ever charged with the crime as an answer to the original poster, who inquired on how it comes to be so prevalent. My response was accurate. I stand by my criticism of knee-jerk reactions which seek to restrict the activities of law abiding citizens with bans on useful products of commerce, solely as a result of the actions of a few who use them illegally. The Constitution of the United States was written, in part, to address just such issues, whether you scholars are aware of it or not. Something can be artistic in nature, even if a crime, in spite of your distaste for it. Why are some of you posters so angry all the time? Insecurity is an ugly thing, even on the internet.