EL MU/Locomotive in Tabor Lake???

[76 fxe]

Now that I think about it ,if the ice house was serviced by the old tracks it would have to have been before the 1909 date on the bridge.Also I knew someone who went in with scuba tanks and said it looked like a box car.The water was murky and it was a long time ago so I'm going on memory.When the water was clear you could see two train wheels maybe four I don't remember and I was a kid.We used to go out and try to find the train in our row boats then take the oar and bump it on the wheels for fun.I'm no train expert I'm no train expert but I know train wheels when I see them.You could see some of the suspension too.The lake is slowly filling with silt so Idon't think they are visible today.There is talk of dredging the lake maybe they will find it then...

[NHRR WTBY]

Frankly, I'm sorry I started this thread in the first place. I heard the original story of the train in the lake from some folks who have a summer cottage on Tabor Lake and thought it was amusing. I figured someone "in the know" about these things would be able to help. Instead, it seems like we're playing a game of one-upsmanship over something that's really of little consequence.

This thread is really a microcosm of my experience on Railroad.net. I found the site quite by accident and thought it would be fun to contribute once in a while because I have a love of trains...all things that move, actually. I have no expertise in the field and couldn't tell the difference between a GE and an EMD locomotive to save my life. Instead, I seem to have intruded on a de facto "members only" club. It's amazing how many "experts" out there seem to take pleasure in knocking each other around. People say things in writing here that they would never consider saying to someone's face. And don't even get me started on the censors (aka "moderators") who "kill" your thread when they don't care for the political bent of your comments. In fact, I don't expect this post to live more than a day, but we'll see.

I guess the bottom line is that life is too short to spend it trading insults in cyberspace. Later, y'all.

[76 fxe]

If I said something to upset someone I certainly didn't mean to.Actually I e-mailed some people that live there and they are going to ask around to see what other stories there are.So far all I know is that its always been there since my family built their cabin in 1952.I did find out that the old track bed running parallel to the existing tracks is the old morris county traction line.Sorry if my post came across as offensive ,Believe me I 'm just trying to add something to the story.All is good,When I get some more info from the people at the lake I'll post it,Although don't think there will be any proof it is interesting to hear the stories...

[henry6]

If I said something to upset someone I certainly didn't mean to.Actually I e-mailed some people that live there and they are going to ask around to see what other stories there are.So far all I know is that its always been there since my family built their cabin in 1952.I did find out that the old track bed running parallel to the existing tracks is the old morris county traction line.Sorry if my post came across as offensive ,Believe me I 'm just trying to add something to the story.All is good,When I get some more info from the people at the lake I'll post it,Although don't think there will be any proof it is interesting to hear the stories...

It wasn't you, 76. Evidently it was me who started it by stating what I knew. And you confirm my suspicions of remnants from the ice house operation. I also have been in contact with several friends who fished from both shore and boat at the lake: they confirmed the reports but themselves never saw anything. And yes, the 1909 bridge was for the Morris County Traction right of way which parralled the DL&W from near Madison to Denville center.

AND GRAVELY, thanks for the headsup on Joe Monahan. He once hosted me on the 3rd trick at Denville: the night the Andrea Doria went down. We listened to news reports on the radio all night long as I learned what the 3rd trick on the railroad was all about.

[mxdata]

NHRR WTBY, I couldn't sum it up any better than you have done.

I have had folks argue with me on railroad dot net about issues from meetings 30 or more years ago where I was one of the principal participants and I know for sure that all the other people who were at the meeting have been dead for many years.

[76 fxe]

OK good.I talked to my brother ,He will be at the lake next weekend to visit for a few weeks.He said he would ask people about it and he is going to take a boat out to look for it and get some pics if he can find it.He also thinks it might be covered with silt and crap by now.If he finds something I'll post it..

[JimBoylan]

my brother is going to take a boat out to look for it.

What are the chances of having divers, lights, and waterproof camera along? I'm interested in helping.

[gravelyfan]

AND GRAVELY, thanks for the headsup on Joe Monahan. He once hosted me on the 3rd trick at Denville: the night the Andrea Doria went down. We listened to news reports on the radio all night long as I learned what the 3rd trick on the railroad was all about.

I bet Joe was very interested in that event, as he was in the Merchant Marine during WWII. More interesting stories!

[njtransitrookie]

I can say for sure there is a car of some sort in Tabor lake. I grew up in the area and lived there for about 28 years. Parallel to the r.o.w. along the lake a large mape tree used to have a large rope swing. If you swung out as far as you could, you would be able to touch what I thought was an old box car and stand up. Since the tree is gone, there is no longer a way to access this area. I think transit cut down the tree in the early 80's.

[stevekay]

There's a story told by the folks who spend the summer on Tabor Lake of a derailment that occurred there many years ago. They say a piece of rolling stock is still in the bottom of the lake, near Mount Tabor station. I find this hard to believe, as Tabor "Lake" is really more of a pond. Does anyone know if there's any truth to this tale?

There is, in fact, a freight car in Tabor Lake. Many years ago there was an ice house on the northeast end of the lake. An isulated box car derailed there and has lain upside down in the lake since then. I have seen it during times of drought when the lake was low. When I was a kid I worked with a lifeguard at the lake who scuba dived the wreck while I manned the row boat (I could see the freight trucks from the boat). Another engineer for Transit scuba dived the site about ten years ago and the remains were still there at that time. It may have been covered by the dam restoration.

Steve

[stevekay]

I can say for sure there is a car of some sort in Tabor lake. I grew up in the area and lived there for about 28 years. Parallel to the r.o.w. along the lake a large mape tree used to have a large rope swing. If you swung out as far as you could, you would be able to touch what I thought was an old box car and stand up. Since the tree is gone, there is no longer a way to access this area. I think transit cut down the tree in the early 80's.

The tree you are talking about was on the east end of the lake by the crossing. The freight car was west of that spot. Kids hanging out and swinging from the tree would also sit on the tracks and play chicken with the train but the railroad (EL at the time) would do nothing about it. The tree was cut down by one of the residents of the lake who was fed up with the kids hanging out and causing trouble for the railroad and the lake. Some vandals set his vacation home on fire on New years day a month or two after the tree was cut down.

Steve

[NHRR WTBY]

OK good.I talked to my brother ,He will be at the lake next weekend to visit for a few weeks.He said he would ask people about it and he is going to take a boat out to look for it and get some pics if he can find it.He also thinks it might be covered with silt and crap by now.If he finds something I'll post it..

Did the dive ever take place? I'm curious what you found.

[Aji-tater]

Wow! It sounds like both sides need to meet at the lake and go for a swim to settle it for good. Here are a couple points - first, if the car went in decades ago maybe nobody remembers the details. BUT - BUT - BUT if it was taken out recently as was suggested, people would remember that for sure.

I'm totally an outsider but those who feel there IS a car there seem to have more weight. But one thing does not add up. Real boxcars merely sit on the trucks, connected by a center pin but not held on to the frame like an HO car. So if a boxcar went in and tipped over it is very likely ~ although not guaranteed ~ that the trucks would not remain in place. A diesel or passenger car would have clamps which keep the trucks attached except in serious wrecks.

So what is down there if anything? If we can find the Titanic, a boxcar in a pond should be easy. How big IS this pond anyway? How about some of those with connections who can do so legally organize an expedition. The losing side buys the beer!

[jlwn111]

There is, in fact, a freight car in Tabor Lake. Many years ago there was an ice house on the northeast end of the lake. An isulated box car derailed there and has lain upside down in the lake since then. I have seen it during times of drought when the lake was low. When I was a kid I worked with a lifeguard at the lake who scuba dived the wreck while I manned the row boat (I could see the freight trucks from the boat). Another engineer for Transit scuba dived the site about ten years ago and the remains were still there at that time. It may have been covered by the dam restoration.

Thanks for backing up what I consider to be the Official Story on this as told by old-time residents of the Lake, Steve. BTW --- my dad (Len Jr.) says HI!

It's still there. It hasn't been removed (Steve would know if it had been).

BTW --- Steve is also correct about what we used to call THE TREE. It was cut down by a Tabor Lake resident because non-members from Mt. Tabor would come over after-hours (and some, brazenly, DURING regular hours) and swing off the tree into our Lake. Later that fall, his cabin was burned down by two of those kids. Brothers actually, who shall remain nameless at this point.

Good luck with Operation Recover-The-Sunken-Box-Car-In-Tabor-Lake 2006!

Bests,
Jim Ward-Nichols
Sedona, AZ, USA
(yes, I've moved since this thread began)

[njt4172]

Good to know the box car or trucks, there of, are still at the bottom of the lake. Anyone know when the accident occured(year?) or perhaps what the cause was??

Thanks,
Steve