The Maine Central Railroad Mountain Division

[gokeefe]

I think it is also worth noting that there really is reason to believe that there would be some demand for freight. Three commodities in particular come to mind, sand/gravel, propane and steel (there is a company in Fryeburg currently shipping via NHN). The propane would take a little more time to develop but there are a lot of dealers in the Fryeburg area, some with previous rail shipping history/experience. There may also be some demand for agricultural loads such as bulk grain and/or fertilizer.

[bostontrainguy]

Does the sale of the Conway Scenic Railroad change things in any way? Do the new owners have any desire to provide future freight service?

[NHV 669]

Those Fryeburg customers are way to intermittent to warrant the rehab needed to reach from either side; the steel on NHN seems occasional at best.

As for the new owners at CSRX: it was stated in their press release that they intend to keep it passenger-only at this time.

[gokeefe]

Would propane really be that low on volume? There is so much more than there used to be and there is no natural gas service in that area. Plus some base load volume of sand and gravel. I know we've been over this ground before but with the discovery of the steel loads, continued increases in propane volumes and possible agricultural commodities I am having a hard time believing we aren't getting closer to viability.

[Mikejf]

Where would the sand and gravel go? Unless Ossipee Aggregates runs out, then I believe Boston Sand & Gravel will continue to get their material from them (they are sister companies, or one owns the other..).

Yes, potential is there, but no place to ship by rail.

[NHV 669]

I would say so on volume. Rymes is the only rail customer I can think of near me, and they're up here in Stratford on NHCR, and I think they get some cars on the old Northern Stub. (cars are no longer spotted down by Irving in W. Leb, not sure if those were their cars in the last two decades anyhow). Neither location can handle a ton of cars, so we're not talking anything near unit trains here. Stratford yard always seems to be full of tanks, but likely storage/switching related. All the other local suppliers seem to have their storage tanks near their fleet HQ's, and none else are close enough to existing sidings or usable rail. I figure that there are enough spread about in the North Country, so that volume would be too sporadic for a consistent delivery, and we know how the tracks are. As for sand, I know of two pits just within 15 minutes of me, both next to formerly active rail (Berlin Branch, & Mt. Div east of Scott Jct.), and both are shipping by truck as always. As pointed out, nowhere to send a dedicated train worth of sand to.

[Mikejf]

There are several pits in Maine along the Mountain Division, but some have already been close due to running out of material.

[NHV 669]

The one here in Dalton appears open, but looks to be near done as well. Quite a drop off Rt. 142 down to where their heavy equipment is.

[Mikejf]

My current employer had one in Twin Mountain, but I think that one is also out of material.

[Cowford]

Would propane really be that low on volume? There is so much more than there used to be and there is no natural gas service in that area. Plus some base load volume of sand and gravel. I know we've been over this ground before but with the discovery of the steel loads, continued increases in propane volumes and possible agricultural commodities I am having a hard time believing we aren't getting closer to viability.

Not sure what you mean by "the discovery" of HarMac? That's been long known; Maine DOT market research pointed it out 10 years ago. Regardless of whether the steel was routed via NHN or the Mountain, the steel would have to be transloaded to truck to get it to the receiver. The Ossipee transload site is 40 miles away and has equipment/manpower available to do the transload work. A Fryeburg railhead would be ~5 miles from HarMac and would require them to provide the lift equipment and employees to do the work. Reducing truck/driver time ~90 minutes per load is admirable, but I'd guess the additional rail freight and transload costs, etc would be prohibitive.

On propane... yes, we've gone over this before. Let's reframe the issue by asking a question: Downeast Energy has an oil and propane distribution site adjacent to the Kennebunk depot. Mainegas (?) has a propane terminal adjacent to the old Wells depot. Suburban Propane at Thompson's Point has a rail spur; Inergy/Maingas has a rail spur on Warren Avenue near Deering Junction. If propane would be such a slam dunk (just add rail service and all the dealers will convert to rail), why don't these companies that already have rail access use rail directly?

[MEC407]

My thoughts exactly, Cowford. There also is, or was, a propane depot in Biddeford near the industrial park with direct rail access from the mainline. They were supposed to be a big customer and IIRC they received IRAP funds from the state. Not sure what ever became of that.

The depot you're thinking of in Wells is Eastern Propane. Direct mainline access and they haven't used it in perhaps a decade or more.

[gokeefe]

I don't know about these dealers but the load volumes on both Pan Am and SLR suggest significant demand for propane by rail. Irving in South Portland via Turners Island RR is one example.

I think all of the other dealers you mention have ready access to larger terminals via the Maine Turnpike (eg Irving). That is certainly not the case for Fryeburg which also doesn't have good highway access via NH either.

HarMac is my fault. I didn't realize it had been included in the original reports. I thought they only identified sand/gravel and propane.

Also worth noting ... Last I had heard/seen there were some propane loads being delivered in Biddeford however those may be to an industrial customer and not a dealer.

[gokeefe]

Where would the sand and gravel go?

I can't recall if a receiver was identified in the original research but I do not remember any mention of Boston Sand and Gravel. I do recall that of all the possible shippers MaineDOT seemed most confident of this one.

If CMQ can afford to operate the Rockland Branch with minimal traffic like perlite and short haul cement why is the Mountain Division uneconomical with base loads that potentially include three different line haul shippers?

The propane alone would seem to be sufficient.

[Mikejf]

Rockland branch would be a loosing proposition if it was not for the cement shuttle, and the huge investment by the state to rebuild the line.

Not sure where Propane would come in. How many bulk loads of Propane pass through the area by truck now? A few I am sure, going to distribution plants in Fryeburg and Conway. Enough to warrant an unloading facility to save 60 ttuck miles? Probably not.

[Cowford]

Oh, right 407, thanks! And it helps to make the point about the propane issue. OK, George... why doesn't Eastern Propane get propane by rail at Wells? Because they have a central rail-served distribution center in Rochester NH. Product is railed into Rochester and distributed out by truck directly to customers or to satellite facilities. No-one is stating that propane demand is minimal or soft in Maine, but you need to understand that propane is not distributed the way it used to be back in the good ol' days. The industry has evolved to a centralized rail distribution orientation. Rail moves propane from production/large-scale storage points, e.g., Sarnia, ON and Marysville MI to smaller-scale regional distribution sites, often run by midstream wholesalers. DCP in Auburn is one such example. Local retailers will purchase through these sites and pick up loads by truck. Among other reasons, consider that a lot of these smaller propane locations only have a couple of folks on-site. Truckers load and unload their own trucks; receivers have to load/unload the railcars delivered to them. Furthermore, propane cars have to be "attended" during the unloading process - you can't "set it and forget it". And the unloader has to be properly trained and qualified. Don't cry for the railroads - they love it (so long as they have the terminal on-line). Who wouldn't want to move 500+ cars a year to one customer (especially a seasonal customer!) instead having that volume spread among 5-10 customers at 5-10 different locations?