scotty269 wrote:...*Re-addition of passenger trains via CSX Trenton LineAh. That makes sense that that would be it. I forgot about that proposal.
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scotty269 wrote:...*Re-addition of passenger trains via CSX Trenton LineAh. That makes sense that that would be it. I forgot about that proposal.
Trackseventeen wrote:Yes, I have seen the map Tim is talking about in that book. It was called the Mack combine. It was an elevated system that was to be financed behind the scenes by August Belmont and fronted by a gentleman with the last name of Mack... I forget his first name. A new company was to be the operator, but I forget the name of it.. Since this system had it origins in the early 1890's, the hub of the system was the area of 2nd and Market, not Broad and Market like the system we have now. The main route of the system was of course, an elevated along the whole length of Market Street, with branches down Woodland Ave and up Lancaster Ave, with a Parkside Avenue spur to serve the FPT Woodside Trolley. There was also a delivery loop like Chicago's with lines radiating out the whole length of Ridge, Germantown, Frankford and Passayunk Avenues. I'm not sure which streets the loop was on, but it was in the Olde City vicinity. This combine was actually the catalyst of why the PRT eventually got the rights to build the Market Street Line. Every single avenue listed above had a Union Traction trolley line running on it, and these new el lines would surely siphon off riders. Although the city fathers were intrigued by a shiny new elevated system, they really wanted a subway under Market Street, not an el...at least not between the rivers. So the management of Union got together and formed a new company, the PRT and proposed a counter offer to the Mack lines, basically promising the same lines... but the difference being a Market Street subway. The city accepted the PRT proposal... it would be a fool not to, since PRT would build the subway with private funds... not even NYC's subway were built privately. Well, after the MSL was complete, PRT found itself practically out of funds and informed the city it could no longer keep its promise to build the other lines. By this time, Belmont was too preoccupied with his dealings in NY to build the other lines. This is how the infamous agreement of 1907 came about. The agreement is very complicated, but basically PRT sold it soul to the devil for the right of no competition in Philly.Thanks Trackseventeen, very interesting.
Too bad the Mack wasn't built, because although the thrust of downtown would move west, most of these el's could have been tied in with the eventual Broad Steet system.
Plus, don't confuse the Mack combine with the city initiated 1912 master plan spearheaded by A. Merritt Taylor... that's a whole other system entirely, some of which most of you know brought us the Frankford el and the Broad Street subway.
sammy2009 wrote:Love the history quick question comes to mind. Do you think if any of these subways was built would they still be in service today ? With all the underfunding that happened and political unfairness ?
Suburban Station wrote:well see if the navy yard gets builtThe Navy Yard extension has a good chance of being built IF it has broad political support locally, and qualifies for federal funding as a new start.
Clearfield wrote:I'd love to see a realistic plan that addresses one big issue in each county as a way to build broad political support for expansion. each county would pick a project (west chester restoration or pville, nhsl extension or pottstown, quakertown/newtown, navy yard, etc)Suburban Station wrote:well see if the navy yard gets builtThe Navy Yard extension has a good chance of being built IF it has broad political support locally, and qualifies for federal funding as a new start.
There are State Representatives in SEPTA's 5 county region who voted NO to the transportation funding bill that is already breathing new life into the system.
In this region, IF is a HUGE word.
Clearfield wrote:I'd love to see a realistic plan that addresses one big issue in each county as a way to build broad political support for expansion. each county would pick a project (west chester restoration or pville, nhsl extension or pottstown, quakertown/newtown, navy yard, etc)Suburban Station wrote:well see if the navy yard gets builtThe Navy Yard extension has a good chance of being built IF it has broad political support locally, and qualifies for federal funding as a new start.
There are State Representatives in SEPTA's 5 county region who voted NO to the transportation funding bill that is already breathing new life into the system.
In this region, IF is a HUGE word.
tgolanos wrote:The Somerton el, was part of Taylor's 1912 plan... It was an elevated line in the median of Roosevelt Blvd using Rising Sun Ave. south of the Blvd to tie into the Broad Street Subway at Allegheny. Just goes to prove Taylor knew his stuff... 100 years later the city is still debating something that even then was known to be a good area to be served by rapid transit.SubwayTim wrote:I don't recall ever reading about or hearing about this one. Choo, you sure you're not thinking about the MFL extension (above Bustleton Avenue) to the Boulevard?Choo Choo wrote:And don't forget the Somerton El... made it to planning phase but then abandoned.Where would this be? Above what street(s) would the Somerton El have been built and where would it have started/ended??? Why was it abandoned???