Newtown Line Technical Questions

[RRSignal2]

Hi. I am currently modelling the line in Auran Trainz. In fact, I've already built it, but would like some bits of info to check for accuracy.

1. It seems that most of the grade crossings didn't have gates. Did any have them?

2. I remember a suggestion that the Terwood crossing had a wig-wag? Does anyone know?

3. Based on the info in another thread and on the Newtown Foundation site, most of the signals on this line were SA-1 searchlights. But I do know of at least one signal, the southbound home signal to Fox Chase, was a Reading-style tri-light type. Does anybody know in more detail what signals the Newtown Line had and where and exactly which ones might still be standing?

4. Related to the above, what kind and configuration of signals guarded the crossing with the R3?

Even if you can't answer these questions, any memories, photos, or scraps of information could be useful.

[scotty269]

I don't have any useful information to add, unfortunately, but I would like to give a big thanks for working on this. This is one of those neat things that I'm glad someone is finally doing!

Let me know when you have a working product!!!

[add2718]

3. Based on the info in another thread and on the Newtown Foundation site, most of the signals on this line were SA-1 searchlights. But I do know of at least one signal, the southbound home signal to Fox Chase, was a Reading-style tri-light type. Does anybody know in more detail what signals the Newtown Line had and where and exactly which ones might still be standing?

There's an old track chart here that shows the signals:

http://newtownline.pa-tec.org/documents/trackchart.gif

As far as those that are still out there, I can vouch for a couple of them:

-- Both northbound searchlights between Fox Chase and Walnut HIll (Moredon Road) are still there.
-- Reading tri-light type still stands northbound just before the old Ayres crossing, in fact, just south of the Huntingdon Pike overpass.
-- Another sounthbound searchlight still stands just south of the Huntingdon Pike overpass, about 200-300 feet south of the bridge over the creek.

I've been told there is also a tri-lite signal just north of the Ayres crossing, and a searchlight near the former County Line station, but I haven't found these myself.

[Jersey_Mike]

Wow, 30-40mph speeds on the whole line. I'd say that's pathetic, but then that;s pretty par for the course on many of the Reading side lines.

[RRSignal2]

Thanks for the replies everyone; every scrap of info helps. I've been following that map and I had guessed the home signals would be tri-light as I had heard way back in the past that Conrail had rebuilt the signals not long before SEPTA took over the line and that SEPTA. However, I would not have guessed searchlight signals were used were it not for pics and links posted by helpful folks on this site. I think I'm going to walk the line this weekend just to see what's left and having an exact location of some of this stuff helps a lot. FYI, the line as I'm building it is primarily the R3 West Trenton to Suburban Station, but I felt it important to add the Newtown. I'm hoping to have it completed in about two months as the only thing really left to do is the scenery.

[scotty269]

This album should be public, thanks to nomis. It's a walking tour of the Newtown Line from Fox Chase (rhawn street) to Terwood Road (just north of the diamond w/the West Trenton Line)

[nomis]

This album should be public ...

it is now ...

[RRSignal2]

Thanks, folks this definitely helps. I didn't get a chance to "walk the line" yet, though I have scoped out most crossings and some interesting places near publicly-accessible points. Up until this thread, I only had the track chart and Google Earth/Bing Maps, and the actual map I'm using in the sim to trace the line. A few more questions though:

The 705 signal, I take it that faces southbound? Roughly where is it from the nearest crossing? Same for that signal in the 27th-30th photographs?

There is a DS (switch) signal discussed in other threads and on the Newtown Line preservation website. I take it all the signals north of Bryn Athyn are switch signals, hence the little 's' underneath them in the diagram. Is this correct?

Are there any other landmarks worth noting? I noticed, for instance, some telegraph poles following the line and am wondering if they followed the line back the 70s and early 80s or were mostly cut down by then. Speed signs are another detail whose location, etc. would be helpful to know. Between the sources I already have, I think I've got a pretty good handle on the larger parts of the infrastructure like the line contours, location of bridges and crossings, etc. However, Google Earth doesn't adequately show smaller, detail items like signals, signs, poles, etc.

[nomis]

The 705 signal, I take it that faces southbound? Roughly where is it from the nearest crossing? Same for that signal in the 27th-30th photographs?

Signal 705 is north of pine rd, south of the shady lane bridge and missing culvert. For northbound traffic.
27th - 30th photo is just south of Moredon(sp) Rd. For northbound traffic.

[limejuice]

All of the Newtown lines lineside structures have been painstakingly documented in detail at the Newtown Historical Society.

[Franklin Gowen]

I had guessed the home signals would be tri-light as I had heard way back in the past that Conrail had rebuilt the signals not long before SEPTA took over the line

I'm not so sure about the scope of that alleged Conrail rebuild. In 1979, the late John Pawson mentioned on page 131 of his book Delaware Valley Rails that the Newtown Branch was not signalled north of the [Pennypack] creek valley.

Additionally, I'm in possession of substantial Conrail documents dated January 1, 1981 which indicate the northernmost automatic block signals then in operation were at FOX CHASE interlocking. They also omit any mention of interlocking signals at AYRES, the New York Branch crossing; did the vandalism-caused fire which wrecked AYRES happen prior to 1/1/1981, then?

As nomis's online photo album shows, other inoperative block signals still exist north of Fox Chase today, but even in early 1981 any mention of the former locations of those had been removed from the documents in question. Corrections welcomed, though - especially from railroad employes who are in a position to access official operations records that are much older than mine.

The Reading Company systemwide employe timetable effective February 1, 1969 clearly states that between Walnut Hill station and Newtown, the branch was operated on a timetable-and-train-order basis. I'm definitely no employe, but to me that implies all the signals within that line segment were dark well before Conrail (let alone SEPTA) ever came on the scene. The very short (1.5 miles) Cheltenham Junction-to-Fox Chase line segment would then have become the "new" farthest northward extent of operating automatic block signalling, just as it is today in 2012.

Interestingly, as late as 1967 the entire branch was still governed by a full automatic block system all the way up to Newtown. I discovered that datum in Reading Company Phila. Division employe timetable number 7, effective April 30, 1967. I speculate that between that date and 2/1/1969, the Newtown Branch's signalling changes were performed concurrently with the Reading's creation of then-new WAYNE and WIND towers at Wayne Junction, Philadelphia -- done to save money by replacing many block operator employes at scattered interlocking towers with a pair of less-expensive Centralized Traffic Control facilities.

I would also love to know the date that the manned interlocking tower at AYRES (New York Branch and Newtown Branch) was closed...I believe that may have happened sometime after 1957. EDIT: A Conrail-era edition (January 8, 1976) of a Rdg. Co. interlocking drawing shows that AYRES interlocking was remoted to WIND's control effective April 7, 1965.

[Jersey_Mike]

First, remember that just because a territory is covered by timetable and train order does not mean it is not equipped with Automatic Block Signaling. Train orders or track warrants are required in the absence of a traffic control system that can set current of traffic as seen in Rule 261 territory. Bi-directional ABS was largely eliminated under Conrail, but was and is still seen on other railroads. Under CSX for example it is known as TWC(ABS) territory and under NS it is Rule 271. Also non-signaled train order territory (manual block) will often have automatic distant signals to interlockings and other isolated signaled locations.

[glennk419]

3. Based on the info in another thread and on the Newtown Foundation site, most of the signals on this line were SA-1 searchlights. But I do know of at least one signal, the southbound home signal to Fox Chase, was a Reading-style tri-light type. Does anybody know in more detail what signals the Newtown Line had and where and exactly which ones might still be standing?

There's an old track chart here that shows the signals:

http://newtownline.pa-tec.org/documents/trackchart.gif

As far as those that are still out there, I can vouch for a couple of them:

-- Both northbound searchlights between Fox Chase and Walnut HIll (Moredon Road) are still there.
-- Reading tri-light type still stands northbound just before the old Ayres crossing, in fact, just south of the Huntingdon Pike overpass.
-- Another sounthbound searchlight still stands just south of the Huntingdon Pike overpass, about 200-300 feet south of the bridge over the creek.

I've been told there is also a tri-lite signal just north of the Ayres crossing, and a searchlight near the former County Line station, but I haven't found these myself.

The trilight signal (Type G) just north of Ayres was a three aspect signal which protected southbound traffic through that crossing. The searchlight signal near County Line is just above the PA Turnpike overpass and was used as a switch indication for the trailing point switch for the siding to the James River Corp. paper warehouse. Last time I hiked the line, The Ayres signal was heavily vandalized and the CL signal was home to a significant population of bees. The southbound distant signal at Bryn Athyn was taken out of service around 1980, the southbound approach signal at Huntingdon Valley survived until the termination of service. Both were approach lighted GRS SA searchlight signals.

[gprimr1]

Street View on Google Earth is an invaluable tool for things like this.