cost of padding rail schedules

[loufah]

loufah, I'm not sure about the etc,

"etc" includes cleaning the train, getting ticket pads and money from the office, going to the bathroom, having a smoke.

I'd also guess that waiting until 5 or 10 minutes before departure to open the train gives the crew a better idea of how many cars need to be opened. Passengers tend to grumble when they're shooed out of a relatively empty car into a relatively full car because someone overestimated the number of cars needed.

[Clearfield]

Some of the padding probably includes trains held (per schedule) a few minutes for separation north of Market East where there would otherwise be multople trains at Wayne Jct. vying for the main line during rush hour.

[Jersey_Mike]

I was doing a search on average speeds on the regional rails after learning that the MARC train hits 125mph.

Not only are SEPTA trains slow, they are costing the transit authority a lot of money:

The Cost of Schedule Padding — $2 Million a Year or More

Each minute added to every train's schedule costs SEPTA from $387,000 to $1.9 million per year. The direct labor cost for a crew of two is $98.10 per hour, and multiplied by the extra hours where the crew sits in the station waiting for the scheduled departure time, it comes out to over $387,000 per year for each minute. Considering that 3 minutes could easily be eliminated from the time it takes trains to go through the Center City Commuter Tunnel, the savings would be at least $1 million in direct labor costs alone.

The Bucks County TMA calculates that the total operating cost of a train is $250 per vehicle revenue hour (in its Quakertown-Stony Creek study). SEPTA's actual fully allocated cost per vehicle revenue hour ranges from $280 to $435, according to their Annual Service Plan. Assuming a minimum of two cars per train, that is a minimum of $500 per hour, and nearly $2 million per year for each minute of schedule padding. However, the fully allocated costs includes some fixed costs that cannot be reduced by having the trains run shorter schedules.

Every minute that a SEPTA train is not carrying passengers to their final destination is an expense to SEPTA. The extra five minutes of padding built into the schedule of every train costs SEPTA from $2 to 10 million per year.

Block scheduling and padding, a waste of time and money. Speed up those trains!

It doesn't work that way. The CBA with the various unions always schedule whole shifts so you'd only get hit with additional per minute charges if the crews were already in the OT. You also don't take into consideration the resulting delay chains from running schedules too tight and then having delays throw huge wrenches into the works.

[25Hz]

i found couple of trains which takes 10 minutes to get to Lansdale from Pennbrook
I know the padding is for waiting at Lansdale for the train from Doylestown/Link Belt to come to Lansdale

Yep, lot of padding. IT IS NOT NEEDED!

As for pairing thru 30th, not needed if trains actually ran more than every hour. It'd be more like a real railroad where the next train isn't a painful obligation but a pleasantly spaced " plan B", and some people would then make the "plan B" their regular train.

Worried about costs from running empty cars? Easy! Run pairs and singles, and leave cars you KNOW you won't need at a siding or yard. They do this at trenton all the time, they take a revenue train, break it in 2, and then that equipment is the next 2 departures!

You end up with 18 ,25 and 30 minute headways with 10-15 during peak times, and hey then maybe your train isn't the one that comes next after you get of a late bus, it isn't an hour wait!!!

Oh my god, it's starting to sound like a real regional railroad with these changes, i better hush up with all this common sense....

[South Jersey Budd]

Excessive schedule padding costs the most important people, the riding public. SEPTA riders get more time added to their commute, if they only knew that trains normally run well below the allowed track speed on most lines in order to keep the crews from sitting in the stations too long with the crossing protection down or from possibly leaving a station early and getting an interview for discipline.

Some padding I agree with like 30th street to Overbrook or Trenton to Levittown or Darby to University City but 3-6 minutes from Yardley to West Trenton? 3-4 minutes from Elwyn to Media? 4-7 minutes 49th Street to University City? I'm sure I could find more if I looked harder. Guess they found a way to improve their OTP, padding! Sorry passengers you could get to your destination 5 - 10 minutes quicker but we want to slow down so everything is on time.

If there is a conflict on either side of the tunnel then there is an easy fix, have the train leave its origin 2 or 4 minutes later and it will arrive at the tunnel 2 or 4 minutes after the other train. I understand trains to and from Thorndale, Trenton, Chestnut Hill West and Newark have Amtrak windows to run in so schedule them first then the SEPTA controlled lines are SEPTA controlled so they can leave at the time needed to control conflicts at interlocking or the tunnel.

[loufah]

It may not be padding per se, but on "flag stop" routes like the trolleys the schedules appear to assume uniform ridership throughout the day. The 101 is almost always scheduled to take 34 to 36 minutes. Off-peak, though, with fewer riders, a trolley sometimes winds up running 4 or 5 minutes ahead of schedule.

(I do realize there are scheduling constraints due to single-tracking west of Woodland Av.)

There does appear to be some padding, though. One time we left Media 10 minutes late because of a traffic incident (an automobile driver thought he could squeeze between the trolley and a parked auto), but by Drexel Hill Junction we were on time.

[NorthPennLimited]

This seems to be an ongoing issue.

Trains still run around all day with 4, or 6 cars during off peak times wasting electricity and adding wear and tear to the cars. Most conductors use only one or 2 cars off peak.

Since the “upgrades” of cab signals and PTC to all the RR lines, they have added more padding.

When is someone going to take a hard look at choke points, develop a talented group of dispatchers, work out the PTC “bugs” that unnecessary slow trains down (like Lansdale, Jenkintown, Wayne Junction, the tunnel inbound) and get the running times back to normal? The train seems to crawl on its knees from Pennbrook to Lansdale ever since it was “modernized” with cab signals.

[rcthompson04]

This seems to be an ongoing issue.

Trains still run around all day with 4, or 6 cars during off peak times wasting electricity and adding wear and tear to the cars. Most conductors use only one or 2 cars off peak.

Since the “upgrades” of cab signals and PTC to all the RR lines, they have added more padding.

When is someone going to take a hard look at choke points, develop a talented group of dispatchers, work out the PTC “bugs” that unnecessary slow trains down (like Lansdale, Jenkintown, Wayne Junction, the tunnel inbound) and get the running times back to normal? The train seems to crawl on its knees from Pennbrook to Lansdale ever since it was “modernized” with cab signals.

You got to wonder at what point do we see even more trains not operating as “through trains”, but terminating at Temple or 30th. It would seem to be a good way to eliminate a lot of the delays caused by earlier runs running late.

[ns2110]

Having just gotten home from London this past week, I think every single person at Septa who makes scheduling decisions should take a trip abroad and get on their transit systems. Not only are they clean, they're on time. Period. Our train was delayed just a couple of minutes because they were doing track work and the driver came over the PA and gave a lengthy explanation and apology as if he had just shot my own mother. This gets brought up every couple of years and all I ever hear are excuses on how it can't be done but to be honest, it can but since Septa is run so poorly, it'll never happen.

[rcthompson04]

Having just gotten home from London this past week, I think every single person at Septa who makes scheduling decisions should take a trip abroad and get on their transit systems. Not only are they clean, they're on time. Period. Our train was delayed just a couple of minutes because they were doing track work and the driver came over the PA and gave a lengthy explanation and apology as if he had just shot my own mother. This gets brought up every couple of years and all I ever hear are excuses on how it can't be done but to be honest, it can but since Septa is run so poorly, it'll never happen.

You get what you pay for in the US. Americans are not prepared to pay European style gas taxes for roads let alone non road transport. SEPTA does a good job for a limited budget.

[mcgrath618]

Having just gotten home from London this past week, I think every single person at Septa who makes scheduling decisions should take a trip abroad and get on their transit systems. Not only are they clean, they're on time. Period. Our train was delayed just a couple of minutes because they were doing track work and the driver came over the PA and gave a lengthy explanation and apology as if he had just shot my own mother. This gets brought up every couple of years and all I ever hear are excuses on how it can't be done but to be honest, it can but since Septa is run so poorly, it'll never happen.

You get what you pay for in the US. Americans are not prepared to pay European style gas taxes for roads let alone non road transport. SEPTA does a good job for a limited budget.

Exactly. The only thing we could improve massively without an increase in budget is communication. I understand that my subway needs to stop, but why?

They also need to add digital signage in the Center City subway stations that tell when the next arrival will be. Every other transit system in the US and Europe has that. If we can have ATC on both subways, we can have arrival/departure data posted.

[rcthompson04]

Having just gotten home from London this past week, I think every single person at Septa who makes scheduling decisions should take a trip abroad and get on their transit systems. Not only are they clean, they're on time. Period. Our train was delayed just a couple of minutes because they were doing track work and the driver came over the PA and gave a lengthy explanation and apology as if he had just shot my own mother. This gets brought up every couple of years and all I ever hear are excuses on how it can't be done but to be honest, it can but since Septa is run so poorly, it'll never happen.

You get what you pay for in the US. Americans are not prepared to pay European style gas taxes for roads let alone non road transport. SEPTA does a good job for a limited budget.

Exactly. The only thing we could improve massively without an increase in budget is communication. I understand that my subway needs to stop, but why?

They also need to add digital signage in the Center City subway stations that tell when the next arrival will be. Every other transit system in the US and Europe has that. If we can have ATC on both subways, we can have arrival/departure data posted.

Yea SEPTA has it on the Regional Rail side at many stations.