Philadelphia Roosevelt Blvd Subway

[SCB2525]

The MFL does not have the capacity to allow an extension appreciably far up the Boulevard, though the plan always was to extend it TO the Boulevard to meet a BSL extension. The BSL was designed to a much higher standard with 4 tracks specifically to accommodate (several) extensions. You would only need to tunnel from the end of the ramps north of Erie to some portal of a location as yet determined (I don't know if planning ever got that far).

[jonnhrr]

It would be cheaper to built an elevated extension of the M-F line to Roosevelt Blvd. than to tunnel from Broad Street. Tunneling has too many potential obstacles; countless underground utilities and three circles come to mind. Built it on the median with access from the side walks. Run it all the way to Neshaminy Mall. That might lighten the traffic on the West Trenton line.

Nowadays with TBM's tunneling is not as disruptive as it used to be with cut and cover construction. Still expensive though.

Jon

[SEPTA2461]

Just as a memory refresher, was the ramp from the never-to-be Northeast Extension, along with the Olney ramp, built along with the rest of the line in 1928?

[SEPTA2461]

It would be cheaper to built an elevated extension of the M-F line to Roosevelt Blvd. than to tunnel from Broad Street. Tunneling has too many potential obstacles; countless underground utilities and three circles come to mind. Built it on the median with access from the side walks. Run it all the way to Neshaminy Mall. That might lighten the traffic on the West Trenton line.

I thought the plan was to build it under the Pennway power line.

[JimBoylan]

The drawing linked in the original post was probably for Roosevelt Blvd. & Rising Sun Ave. It shows the head house for the underground station in the middle of the Boulevard, and the PCCs with standee windows on Rising Sun Ave. The proposed route from Broad St. was to go under Hunting Park to about 9th St. & Roosevelt Blvd., so there would not have been a station at Roosevelt Blvd. & Old York Rd, the only other intersection with a trolley line.

[bikentransit]

This should be built over the KOP extension. It would serve so many more riders on a corridor choked in traffic that is extremely dangerous to drive.

[JeffK]

This should be built over the KOP extension. It would serve so many more riders on a corridor choked in traffic that is extremely dangerous to drive.

Right or wrong, K of P managed to attract more, and earlier, municipal and business support than either Roosevelt Blvd or a southern BSS extension so it moved up the priority ladder. Beyond that even if support for one of the other extensions were to quickly coalesce, K of P couldn't simply be put on hold and picked up later. The somewhat perverse way planning's done for major capital projects means that the K of P clock would effectively reset to (near) zero; almost everything from choosing a locally-preferred alternative to environmental studies would have to be redone.

[bikentransit]

That is a terrible way to conduct planning and use of scarce capital resources. But there's no argument because it's abundantly true. If projects were chosen based on merit and not how many politicos signed up for supporting it, the Bethlehem, Newtown and Reading corridors would have been built long ago, because they are the most congested areas in the region, collectively second to Roosevelt Boulevard. The sheer pricetag for the Boulevard makes it un-buildable at this point. For whatever reason, this state has problems funding transit projects while other states are forging ahead with new starts.

[Jeff Smith]

https://billypenn.com/2023/06/08/roosev ... enderings/

New station renderings: Building a cost-effective subway on Roosevelt Boulevard

Construction of the Roosevelt Boulevard Subway has been delayed in Philadelphia for the past 110 years. As the revived campaign to construct the projected 15-mile route gains steam, a lot of people have raised questions about the cost, fearing it will place an undue load on SEPTA.

One of the important factors to consider is the amount of money it costs to construct stations.
...
The Roosevelt Boulevard Subway movement’s latest graphics address this, suggesting a design for streamlined stations intended for efficiency and effectiveness in moving passengers.
...
One important takeaway was that the public preferred shallow “cut-and-cover” construction over tunnel boring machines. The rationale provided by the community was that Roosevelt Boulevard is wide enough to accommodate rapid transit due to its twelve lanes and its 80-foot median.
...

[GojiMet86]

Build it. Cut-and-cover, not some deep level 2nd Avenue style tunnels. Roosevelt is wide enough to support the construction.

And the subway would provide alternatives for people in case, say, portions of a certain highway collapse.

[nomis]

Per the grassroots @BlvdSubway, there is a press release at 10am about the Roosevelt Blvd Subway.

https://twitter.com/BlvdSubway/status/1 ... 8316157953

[nomis]

City Council plans Roosevelt Boulevard Subway hearings following I-95 collapse
https://billypenn.com/2023/06/14/roosev ... -collapse/

Philadelphia City Council will hold hearings about a proposed Roosevelt Boulevard Subway, a move spurred by the I-95 collapse in Northeast Philly over the weekend.

Councilmember Mike Driscoll, who represents District 6 in the Northeast, is introducing a resolution on Thursday for the Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities to “review the impacts and funding options to extend the subway system into the Roosevelt Boulevard corridor,” per a press release.

A proposal to extend SEPTA’s Broad Street Line along the main corridor connecting the Northeast to Center City was originally considered over 100 years ago, but never materialized. The idea of a Roosevelt Boulevard Subway started to gain renewed attention last summer.

[MACTRAXX]

SS and Everyone: Has there been any note about the pricetag of how much the Roosevelt Boulevard
Subway extension is going to cost in 2023 dollars?

Building this line for most of its entirity underground is going to cost far more than a surface line using
the center mall of RB Chicago-style (or something similar to the MFSE Spring Garden Station segment
in I-95 which opened in 1977) to serve the population center of Northeast Philadelphia...

Could partisan political divisions become a serious problem for the funding of this route going forward?
How long will it take to actually break ground to construct this project?

These are questions and observations that should be noted as this is being considered...MACTRAXX

[BuddCar711]

The problem with using the median on Roosevelt Boulevard would be that there would be multiple grade crossings (and grade crossings and 3rd rails don't mix). So unless the Boulevard is rebuilt into something similar to the Vine Street expressway and use the median for the line, cut-and-cover would have to do.

[MACTRAXX]

BC: There would be NO grade crossings intersecting the Roosevelt Boulevard routing - ALL cross streets
would go OVER or UNDER similar to Chicago's three main CTA routes that run in expressway medians.

There would still have to be underground stations built - the most complicated intersect area is going to
be Roosevelt Boulevard/Cottman Avenue adjacent to Roosevelt Mall. At that point there is no median in
the center of RB - a routing taking the line under an adjacent Mall parking lot parallel would be used for
a significant station at what may become the highest ridership single stop on the route...MACTRAXX