glennk419 wrote:Unfortunately, jurys in this country are not necessarily comprised of the smartest of our society and often love to go after the "higher' entity. In this case, that would be SEPTA.I disagree with associating trail advocates with tree huggers - in past experiences, I have found the them to be distinctly different beasts; but you're spot on with the "higher" entity getting the shaft and potential lack of common sense once at trial - hence why many, to include SEPTA, settle most cases. Once within the city, the insanity rises beyond comprehension.
This whole damn thing is a recipe for disaster just to a satisfy a few tree huggers and I also can't wait until someone's unsupervised kid falls off of one of the numerous bridges crossing the Pennypack Creek between Welsh Road and Woodmont.
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Newtown Line
- Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Moderator: AlexC
I wonder how much the residents near the former Bethayres crossing will appreciate hearing train horns at all hours of the day and night?
And regarding that lawsuit against SEPTA, read up on their enabling legislation:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI ... /74/74.HTM
§ 1741. General powers.
(a)(14) To acquire by purchase, lease or otherwise and to construct, improve, maintain, repair and operate passenger transportation facilities and a transportation system or systems or portions thereof and to pay all costs thereof, including, but not limited to, the costs of all work and materials incidental thereto and all amounts necessary to place any project into operation.
And regarding that lawsuit against SEPTA, read up on their enabling legislation:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI ... /74/74.HTM
§ 1741. General powers.
(a)(14) To acquire by purchase, lease or otherwise and to construct, improve, maintain, repair and operate passenger transportation facilities and a transportation system or systems or portions thereof and to pay all costs thereof, including, but not limited to, the costs of all work and materials incidental thereto and all amounts necessary to place any project into operation.
What does that have to do with determining liability? The depth of SEPTA's pockets is a different issue.
bikentransit wrote:I wonder how much the residents near the former Bethayres crossing will appreciate hearing train horns at all hours of the day and night?ExCon, I' assuming this is referring to 25's potential (or sincerely contemplated) lawsuit against SEPTA for not reactivating the line, not a liability tort. In either case, the above is not applicable.
And regarding that lawsuit against SEPTA, read up on their enabling legislation:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI ... /74/74.HTM
§ 1741. General powers.
(a)(14) To acquire by purchase, lease or otherwise and to construct, improve, maintain, repair and operate passenger transportation facilities and a transportation system or systems or portions thereof and to pay all costs thereof, including, but not limited to, the costs of all work and materials incidental thereto and all amounts necessary to place any project into operation.
Actually, I'd forgotten all about 25's suit; I thought he was suggesting that indemnifying the estate of a distracted trail user was part of the "cost" of running SEPTA's operation. I've no doubt that SEPTA would be sued, as would Safetran and the contractor who paved the trail, but as pointed out by others, their liability would be determined by a court, or else settled between the parties to avoid a precedent.
I'd like to see 25hz file suit for not reactivating the 'critical' line.
The suit papers would be public, as would whoever brings the suit.
The suit papers would be public, as would whoever brings the suit.
"The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".............. Spock
My opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of any organization, Association, or Authority.
My opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of any organization, Association, or Authority.
How can you sue over not reactivating the Newtown Branch? Previous ridership forecasts weren't that high which makes it "not critical" and SEPTA didn't and doesn't have the money to restore it even with Act 89 funding. If 25hz were to sue over it, SEPTA can easily just say they don't have the funding for it which would be a justifiable answer. The only thing I personally think they should pursue regarding Newtown is maybe an updated feasibility study which SEPTA said they would do if both Bucks and Montco were interested (and neither is).
The cutback in 1983 of diesel lines to the termini of the wired system happened just as the population along the line was set to explode. It has exploded, we need the service back. Pretty simple.
I'm not going to sit back and watch mine and my neighbor's tax dollars fund some trail and forever road repairs and so on when re-activation is by and large the consensus among residents in the area most affected by the line's re-activation and somewhat outside of that area as well. There are literally mile plus long traffic jams here in the morning and often in the evening that were not here 10 years ago, even though the bypass has a speed limit of 55 and the roads connecting to it have speed limits of 35+. The issue is not speed, or traffic signals, or intersection layout, it's sheer pure volume. SEPTA is not meeting its mandate to provide transit to the lower 1/2 of bucks county. Don't bother pointing me to buses, as in most cases you cannot even walk to the closest stop due to lack of sidewalks and crosswalks where there are sidewalks. This also affects air quality and noise pollution.
As i stand in the kitchen on weekday mornings making breakfast or tea, i can legitimately see out the window traffic lined up on 332 backed up all the way into the next township across the creek. This is not acceptable. We are choking to death on traffic within a 8 mile radius of newtown. Most of that volume is going into NJ, or heading to i-95 and philadelphia and points between On top of that, on some days the traffic volume is heavy all day and into the late evening. It isn't sustainable, and it sure isn't saving people money to sit there shuffling forward every 2 minutes batteries draining or fuel burning. Lost productivity, increased stress, loss of sleep due to having to leave earlier etc etc the list goes on.
It may take up to a year to get it organized and see how plausible a suit is, but if it is plausible, it will happen and you lot on here will be the first to know what goes on.
I'm not going to sit back and watch mine and my neighbor's tax dollars fund some trail and forever road repairs and so on when re-activation is by and large the consensus among residents in the area most affected by the line's re-activation and somewhat outside of that area as well. There are literally mile plus long traffic jams here in the morning and often in the evening that were not here 10 years ago, even though the bypass has a speed limit of 55 and the roads connecting to it have speed limits of 35+. The issue is not speed, or traffic signals, or intersection layout, it's sheer pure volume. SEPTA is not meeting its mandate to provide transit to the lower 1/2 of bucks county. Don't bother pointing me to buses, as in most cases you cannot even walk to the closest stop due to lack of sidewalks and crosswalks where there are sidewalks. This also affects air quality and noise pollution.
As i stand in the kitchen on weekday mornings making breakfast or tea, i can legitimately see out the window traffic lined up on 332 backed up all the way into the next township across the creek. This is not acceptable. We are choking to death on traffic within a 8 mile radius of newtown. Most of that volume is going into NJ, or heading to i-95 and philadelphia and points between On top of that, on some days the traffic volume is heavy all day and into the late evening. It isn't sustainable, and it sure isn't saving people money to sit there shuffling forward every 2 minutes batteries draining or fuel burning. Lost productivity, increased stress, loss of sleep due to having to leave earlier etc etc the list goes on.
It may take up to a year to get it organized and see how plausible a suit is, but if it is plausible, it will happen and you lot on here will be the first to know what goes on.
Next stop the square, journal square station next!
25hz, I understand what you're trying to say and this is what I'll say in response.
The 232 Corridor (Newtown) does need an improvement in some shape or form. However, it's not just a local problem, it's a regional problem. SEPTA isn't going to spend money on expansion for a few years because there are tons of crumbling bridges and stations that need to be replaced. After that, SEPTA will finish the two projects that they have been trying to finish for years: Wawa and KOP. The top candidates after that are projects that have the support of many politicians: Navy Yard, Blvd, and City Branch. IF Newtown were to get back on the drawing board, either DVRPC or SEPTA would have to do a feasibility study. From what I've heard, DVRPC isn't interested in at all and SEPTA will only commit to it if there is political support. Many communities in Bucks support it but the county itself has very little interest and doesn't want to pay for a study. Montco has zero interest and is satisfied with the two lines in that area. SEPTA told PA-TEC four years ago that if both Bucks and Montco would support it, they would do a study. Neither supports the line so nothing happens. I'm not trying to be a jerk but you have no chance in the court system.
The 232 Corridor (Newtown) does need an improvement in some shape or form. However, it's not just a local problem, it's a regional problem. SEPTA isn't going to spend money on expansion for a few years because there are tons of crumbling bridges and stations that need to be replaced. After that, SEPTA will finish the two projects that they have been trying to finish for years: Wawa and KOP. The top candidates after that are projects that have the support of many politicians: Navy Yard, Blvd, and City Branch. IF Newtown were to get back on the drawing board, either DVRPC or SEPTA would have to do a feasibility study. From what I've heard, DVRPC isn't interested in at all and SEPTA will only commit to it if there is political support. Many communities in Bucks support it but the county itself has very little interest and doesn't want to pay for a study. Montco has zero interest and is satisfied with the two lines in that area. SEPTA told PA-TEC four years ago that if both Bucks and Montco would support it, they would do a study. Neither supports the line so nothing happens. I'm not trying to be a jerk but you have no chance in the court system.
SEPTA took a functioning, operating line and destroyed it. Possibly sabotage with half-assed training of non-railroaders to run a railroad, withheld maintenance on the rolling stock, then let the infrastructure fail to the point of making restoration unfeasible. This situation was their creation, enabled by Bucks and Montco politicians. That in itself is a violation of their charter, and they should be called to the carpet for it. A good attorney may help determine legal culpability on the part of SEPTA.
could everyone just take a step back, examine this discussion, and think about just how insane this is?
shipbuilder
rail maintainer, 1st class
FEBT volunteer
TWU 234---WE MOVE PHILADELPHIA!!!
rail maintainer, 1st class
FEBT volunteer
TWU 234---WE MOVE PHILADELPHIA!!!
25Hz wrote:I'm not going to sit back and watch mine and my neighbor's tax dollars fund some trail and forever road repairs and so on when re-activation is by and large the consensus among residents in the area most affected by the line's re-activation and somewhat outside of that area as well.
Hacker wrote:That in itself is a violation of their charter, and they should be called to the carpet for it. A good attorney may help determine legal culpability on the part of SEPTA.Good luck, but I'll speculate that the farthest you'll get is:
Attachments:
25Hz wrote:It may take up to a year to get it organized and see how plausible a suit is, but if it is plausible, it will happen and you lot on here will be the first to know what goes on.Send me a PM then, so I can unlock this thread.
~Alex Charyna: SEPTA (and PATCO) Forum Moderator
“Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous 16-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.”
― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
“Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous 16-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.”
― Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon