SEPTA Independence Passes: New Limit of 10 Rides?

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone:

I took notice to something mentioned on SEPTA's website as I was reading the Philadelphia Home Show
page currently posted. As I read the fares I took note to the mention that the Independence Pass now
has a limit of 10 rides - it previously was valid for unlimited travel for one day.

This is the current Independence Pass information posted by SEPTA:
http://septa.org/fares/pass/independence.html

The limit is most likely controlled by the download of the I Pass on to the SEPTA Key. With legacy I Pass
sales continuing which have no practical way to limit use outside of a redesign to something that would
more resemble the once sold 8 ride limited Convenience Pass for transit.

This new limit of 10 rides for I Passes placed on the Key is just another reason that I will continue to
purchase legacy passes when necessary until they are no longer available. On this note I am going to
make an extra effort to purchase some extra legacy I Passes to hold on to (their years listed are 2019
to 2022 for those currently sold) for future use.

MACTRAXX

[JeffK]

That's disturbing but not surprising. One could be forgiven for imagining people at 1234 staying up nights looking for places to further restrict riders' options, almost as if the ultimate goal is a 100% pay-per-ride system. I wonder how much of this effort is driven by their G.E.L.D. fixation exacerbated by revenue streams lost due to "oops"es in the Key's design...

[rcthompson04]

10 taps per day is actually higher than the 240 spread over a month, which equals 8 a day over a 30 day month.

I would like to see if anyone has bumped up to the 10 limit on a Key card in a day.

[JeffK]

I would like to see if anyone has bumped up to the 10 limit on a Key card in a day.

It would be nearly impossible for a commuter to do it, but I could see a tourist or transit fan hitting that limit if they really tried. I came pretty close on a couple of photo trips - bus to NHSL, NHSL to 101, 101 back to MFL, MFL to SS, then reverse home except for the 101 detour.

[Suburban Station]

10 taps per day is actually higher than the 240 spread over a month, which equals 8 a day over a 30 day month.

I would like to see if anyone has bumped up to the 10 limit on a Key card in a day.

depends how you look at it, 240 rides on a zone 4 is 85 cents per ride but ten rides for $13 bucks is $1.30 so you pay more per ride. FTR zone 2 monthly is .60 per ride. obviously most people do not use all the rides on either. it would be nice to see a customer friendly change for once, like a weekend pass

[ExCon90]

With a new General Manager coming in, would this be a good time for a letter-writing campaign? New general managers sometimes like to shake things up, and the Scrooge-like attitude of those now in charge of revenue policy could use a shakeup.

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone:

Good feedback on this negative change to I Passes recently implemented with the continued Key conversion.

The problem of reaching or exceeding a 10 ride limit can arise depending on the use of an I Pass for a day.
For me as example I count four rides for starters - two in each direction - a R/T bus ride to/from Lansdale and than a round trip
to Center City. A 10 ride cap would leave me with only six rides to work with over the course of
a day depending on what and where I need to go in the City. Keep in mind each vehicle used is going to
count as one ride - and it does not matter if it is a short City transit or long RRD ride. In short those that
are more transit-dependent are going to be affected by a 10 ride limit on a Key-based I Pass.

Another thought that this new limitation may cause is that riders may think that the legacy passes will also
have this limitation - as we already know they do not - remembering how some riders were thinking that
legacy weekly/monthly passes had caps when SEPTA began to mention the use of ride caps for the Key.

I remember describing to another rider at a public hearing exactly what the differences were between
legacy passes - in which the only restriction is an 18 minute "lockout" at the same station or on the
same bus route to prevent "pass-back" fare abuse - the legacy system is not elaborate enough to
count rides and with visual inspection on RRD unless one actually keeps count of their trips - and
the Key with its implementation that includes ride caps on all pass types.

SS brings up a good point about sale of a special Weekend Pass - the first thought that comes to mind
is what Metra in Chicago sells which is unlimited use on the entire system for both days. An option
that we may lose with the Key is the Anywhere privilege that ALL Legacy Passes have on weekends.

My opposition to ride caps is even stronger noticing these new restrictions implemented for I Passes
loaded on to the Key. This is another incentive to shun the Key until it is no longer possible...

MACTRAXX

[JeffK]

It would be nice to see a customer friendly change for once, like a weekend pass

More than just a weekend pass, it would be useful and customer-friendly* to have passes not linked to calendar periods or available for a specific number of days. Certainly a halfway-decent system** should be able to keep track of when a pass is valid regardless of its starting date.

The insistence on calendar intervals creates problems for anyone whose travel patterns change due to vacations or holidays. When I worked in CC, every time I had a "short" month I'd have to jump through hoops to minimize wasting part of a pass. E.g. if I was taking vacation time and the prior month ended in mid-week, I'd be left hanging until the next Sunday when a Weekly made financial sense. Almost everyone kept spreadsheets to figure out the best options. OK, it was an IT department full of geeks but that level of planing shouldn't have been necessary if SEPTA's fares were less of a hodgepodge.

* I know, dream on.
** And yet another fantasy ...

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone - In case anyone has not seen or used a legacy Independence Pass this is the text on the back:
(Comments in parentheses - Individual I Pass)

Valid for unlimited travel for one person, on any one day on all regularly scheduled SEPTA service.
Not valid on weekday Regional Rail trains arriving at or passing through Center City Philadelphia stations
before 9:30 AM. (AM Peak restriction on Regional Rail ended in early 2019)
Additional fare of $5.00 per trip is required for all Regional Rail travel originating or terminating in the
State of New Jersey. (The two Zone NJ stations: Trenton and West Trenton to be exact)
Present this pass to operator, cashier or conductor for inspection and cancellation. This pass is subject to
tariff regulations and is neither refundable nor replaceable if lost, stolen or partially used.
It is a felony to copy, alter or counterfeit this pass or any other SEPTA fare media.
For more information call 215-580-7800 or visit www.septa.org

Was there an actual proposed change in the current tariff for this new 10 ride cap on I Passes to be
implemented? Was there any announcement or proposal by SEPTA previously that perhaps no one
noticed until this change was made?

Jeff - I noticed your thought of a flexible time block for passes (going off topic but on the subject of
ride cap limits) instead of monthly and weekly passes valid periods as they are normally sold.

In the New York City region Unlimited Metrocards have been sold for 7 day and 30 day periods since
their sales began in 1998. These have the option of starting the time block at the riders discretion.

Around 10 or so years ago the MTA proposed during one of their every two/three years fare increases
that ride caps be implemented for both pass types. The feedback the MTA received on this subject was
overwhelmingly against any kind of cap limitations. The thought from most riders was "Increase the
price of Unlimited Metrocards but do not implement any ride caps or limitations." With rider advocate
groups along with local politicians showing strong opposition to ride cap limits the MTA backed down.

Could stronger and more established influential opposition to SEPTA pass ride caps have made a
difference? MACTRAXX

[ExCon90]

Any introduction of a cap where none existed before constitutes a fare change requiring a change in the tariff, which in turn requires a period of public notice. Did SEPTA touch any of those bases?

[rcthompson04]

It would be nice to see a customer friendly change for once, like a weekend pass

More than just a weekend pass, it would be useful and customer-friendly* to have passes not linked to calendar periods or available for a specific number of days. Certainly a halfway-decent system** should be able to keep track of when a pass is valid regardless of its starting date.

The insistence on calendar intervals creates problems for anyone whose travel patterns change due to vacations or holidays. When I worked in CC, every time I had a "short" month I'd have to jump through hoops to minimize wasting part of a pass. E.g. if I was taking vacation time and the prior month ended in mid-week, I'd be left hanging until the next Sunday when a Weekly made financial sense. Almost everyone kept spreadsheets to figure out the best options. OK, it was an IT department full of geeks but that level of planing shouldn't have been necessary if SEPTA's fares were less of a hodgepodge.

* I know, dream on.
** And yet another fantasy ...

You would think with the Key technology, multi-day pass variations would actually be easier to implement since Independence Passes don't become active until they are tapped-in.

I am a bit of a nut trying to figure out what is the best option for me. Seeing I am heading to the office less than 15 days a month and am almost always coming from Zone 4, I have been using the daily Independence Pass. They give me more flexibility than the paper tickets (i.e. I can use other modes as well). I keep a paper ticket for the once every month or two occasion I need to take Amtrak.

[rcthompson04]

Any introduction of a cap where none existed before constitutes a fare change requiring a change in the tariff, which in turn requires a period of public notice. Did SEPTA touch any of those bases?

I think they might have a problem with the Independence Passes based on your comment in two regard based on Page 33 of the most recent tariff I can find:

https://www.septa.org/fares/pdf/Tariff- ... FY2018.pdf

Individual Independence Pass: An Individual Independence Pass attached to a SEPTA Key Card or Registered Contactless Chip-Enabled Media is valid for a single day's travel for one individual for unlimited trips in either direction on any regular scheduled transit (bus, trolley, subway-elevated train) route or on any Regional Rail train scheduled to arrive at stations designated as Center City after 9:30 AM on weekdays and on all Regional Rail trains on Saturday, Sunday and major holidays. The Individual Independence Pass will be valid during the calendar day registered at the time of first use until 2:00 AM of the following day. An additional $5.00 surcharge will be applied for travel on each Regional Rail trip to or from the State of New Jersey.

Note there are two problems. First, the cap is not referenced as it is referenced for the Weekly and Monthly passes. Second, Independence Passes are technically still not valid until 930am.

I am not going to whine as I have benefited from the rule change (50 cents every time I use one), but the cap and eliminating the 930am rule seems to be in violation of the tariff.

[ExCon90]

Quite a few years ago I wanted to see exactly what the tariff said about honoring Railroad Retirement cards as proof of age (since no date of birth is stated on them), and it took them quite a while to figure out who, on what floor, might have a copy of a tariff; they finally unearthed one, and the wording was unclear. I worked with tariffs during most of my time on the railroad, and the SEPTA tariff would not have passed muster for clarity or organization.

[MACTRAXX]

RCT: Good information and research concerning the current SEPTA tariff.

What is interesting is that there were two main changes concerning Independence Passes - one positive
and one negative - since the information in the current tariff was written.

The positive change was the elimination of the AM Peak restriction on weekdays about one year ago.
This made I Pass use easier and more flexible on weekday mornings.

The negative change was the implementation of the 10 ride limit on I Passes downloaded to the Key
that was only introduced within the last month - I only became aware of the change from looking at
a special event promotional page as mentioned previously and than checking the current I Pass page
for clarification. Legacy I Passes - unless there is a change to either have them punched 10 times or
a new paper pass designed with 10 punch blocks - should continue to offer unlimited rides for a day.

Depending on how many vehicles one plans to use with an Independence Pass a rider can save a
significant amount of money well over the $13 cost of the pass itself. With a 10 ride limit one may
need to plan their day of travel more closely to keep from exceeding this limitation.

Does anyone know if SEPTA had mentioned anything about this newly-implemented Independence
Pass change in any proposal to change the current tariff?

MACTRAXX

[rcthompson04]

RCT: Good information and research concerning the current SEPTA tariff.

What is interesting is that there were two main changes concerning Independence Passes - one positive
and one negative - since the information in the current tariff was written.

The positive change was the elimination of the AM Peak restriction on weekdays about one year ago.
This made I Pass use easier and more flexible on weekday mornings. It has been around for months. Maybe I am the only person who noticed until a few months ago.

The negative change was the implementation of the 10 ride limit on I Passes downloaded to the Key
that was only introduced within the last month - I only became aware of the change from looking at
a special event promotional page as mentioned previously and than checking the current I Pass page
for clarification. Legacy I Passes - unless there is a change to either have them punched 10 times or
a new paper pass designed with 10 punch blocks - should continue to offer unlimited rides for a day.

Depending on how many vehicles one plans to use with an Independence Pass a rider can save a
significant amount of money well over the $13 cost of the pass itself. With a 10 ride limit one may
need to plan their day of travel more closely to keep from exceeding this limitation.

Does anyone know if SEPTA had mentioned anything about this newly-implemented Independence
Pass change in any proposal to change the current tariff?

MACTRAXX

I have been using the Independence Passes on the Key card on again off again since last spring and there always has been a limit of 10 trips.