2015 Pennsylvania State Rail Plan - SEPTA

[Jeff Smith]

I'm going to cross-post this topic in a few forums; this will be the "seed" post. It will be posted in Amtrak, SEPTA, Norfolk Southern, CSX, and Pennsylvania Railfan as it covers more than just one area of interest. I'll tag each topic appropriately. Each topic will serve as the discussion point for that railroad.

Thanks!

Plan the Keystone

Herald Mail Media

Among the states, Pennsylvania is the fifth highest in total miles of railroad tracks, with more than 5,000 route miles of tracks served by 55 companies. It is a leader in the number of carloads and tons originating and terminating within the state.

Amtrak, already in the midst of a $151 billion improvement program, projects its Pennsylvania ridership will grow by 36 percent by 2035, according to the plan.

Passenger-rail growth is predicted to grow because of its on-time performance, frequency of trains on the schedule, reduced travel time by rail and ongoing traffic-congestion issues in Philadelphia and New York City, Kirkpatrick said.

Large-scale transportation investments in the early discussion stages include new passenger-rail service from Scranton to New York City; new commuter-rail systems in Pittsburgh, Harrisburg and Reading; extensive improvements in the corridor between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh; and second main tracks and dedicated freight tracks along high-volume and high-density freight-rail corridors.

[trackwelder]

holy crap that's a lot to digest! i've been at it an hour and i'm not even done section 2, and just skimming at that!

[ChemiosMurphy]

I've found quite a few errors. Page 20 in Chapter 2 says North Philadelphia stations on on Norristown/Manayunk Line (ditto for Warminster). MAS numbers are off too on prior pages.

[R36 Combine Coach]

Noticed the Chestnut Hill East & West branches have very similar daily ridership numbers ( I actually expected CHE to post somewhat higher). The maps depict the CHW line using the RDG main line into Center City and not the PRR connection at North Philadelphia. The posted ridership for the Wilmington Line seems lower than expected (ranking 7th of the rail lines).

[BuddCar711]

The posted ridership for the Wilmington Line seems lower than expected (ranking 7th of the rail lines).

Wouldn't you think that tax-free shopping would make ridership increase?

[khecht]

The posted ridership for the Wilmington Line seems lower than expected (ranking 7th of the rail lines).

Wouldn't you think that tax-free shopping would make ridership increase?

I don't know, I've never seen advertising for such, and aside from the Wilmington waterfront, there isn't a lot of shopping right next to the stations in Delaware. Additionally, probably less than half of the total trains on the line go south of Marcus Hook.

[Suburban Station]

That's the problem, not enough trains go to wilmington. ..despite that fact delaware still makes up half the ridership on the line. I also noticed penndots map ends at the state line ignoring wilmington

[the sarge]

Pennsylvania loves Delaware for its tax free shopping but it's hard bringing six cases of booze on a train. Service in Delaware is FULLY funded by Delaware and one of the reasons why Delaware is not on a Pennsylvania map nor a part of the state plan - even though a good portion of the trips to Del are from PA. And shame on Penndot for ending a state map at the state line; what were they thinking?

If interested, Wilmington can be seen on a map in this plan: http://www.deldot.gov/information/pubs_ ... _final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Suburban Station]

Yet another unnecessarily snarky post from the sarge. If it wasn't for delaware this line would pull no more riders than a chestnut hill line. Much of Marcus Hook ridership also comes from delaware plates...it isn't about penndot having it on their map but the absence of it is why the line performs poorly in ridership. You knew that of course
One metro area, four obstinate, narrow-minded bureaucracies, not a surprise transit can't compete.

[Suburban Station]

Noticed the Chestnut Hill East & West branches have very similar daily ridership numbers ( I actually expected CHE to post somewhat higher). The maps depict the CHW line using the RDG main line into Center City and not the PRR connection at North Philadelphia. The posted ridership for the Wilmington Line seems lower than expected (ranking 7th of the rail lines).

digging into the deldot report they have improvements planned they anticipate roughly doubling delaware ridership which translates to almost a 50 percent increase in total ridership all things being equal. Judging by past ridership trends that would mean it would surpass up to four other lines (though not all those lines will be stagnant).back to pa, I understand zoo to Wynne is very much a go which should make paoli an incredibly quick trip on amtrak (among other things). It would also mean an approximately 53 minute trip from lancaster would be possible.

[the sarge]

What is the Zoo to Wynne project? How will it cut significant time to Lancaster?

[R36 Combine Coach]

If it wasn't for delaware this line would pull no more riders than a chestnut hill line. Much of Marcus Hook ridership also comes from delaware plates...

Are you saying the south side Delco suburbs generate lower amounts of traffic that other lines?

Before weekend Wilmington service was added, Marcus Hook was it. I understand since DelDOT is the sponsor agency, there is limited service south of Marcus Hook. But DelDOT has come a long way - even purchasing four cars for service.

[the sarge]

If it wasn't for delaware this line would pull no more riders than a chestnut hill line. Much of Marcus Hook ridership also comes from delaware plates...

Are you saying the south side Delco suburbs generate lower amounts of traffic that other lines

Yes, SS is correct in that MH to Darby generates on average around 5000 daily trips - about as much as each of the CH lines. If the report of DE residents elevating their risk for cancer by catching the train at The Hook is true, and that there is more DE riders then Marcus Hookers, it's possible that total PA ridership for the line falls below the two 'Nuts.

[khecht]

What is the Zoo to Wynne project? How will it cut significant time to Lancaster?

I'm wondering as well - does "Wynne" refer to Wynnefield on the Cynwyd line or Wynnewood on the Paoli line? A quick search didn't show an interlocking by that name.

There are several things that could/need to happen on the main line between Zoo and Overbrook:

- Retirement of the 52nd St flyover, which now only serves outbound Cynwyd trains.
- Completion of the work underway to restore the surface level outbound connection to the Cynwyd line (formerly a freight connection from the 49th St yard to the Schuylkill Division to Norristown and beyond)
- Demolishing the 52nd St flyover and its approach from under the Belmont & Girard bridge. The switches there are pretty rough as well. Reworking that interlocking - which also is where the NY-Pittsburgh duckunder to the NEC at Zoo splits off the main - could speed things up there I suppose. They could also restore four tracks from Overbrook to this duckunder split or probably all the way to Zoo if they wanted to, though traffic probably doesn't warrant the expense.
- Moving/rehabbing Overbrook interlocking so it's not in the middle of the station or on the curve.

[Suburban Station]

What is the Zoo to Wynne project? How will it cut significant time to Lancaster?

It's been some time since I've seen a plan but the project was to eliminate overbrook and complete the work at zoo, Wynne was the name for the replacement interlocking east of overbrook...speeds would go to 80 mph from I think 30 mph. ...I don't recall if it also involved signaling from 36th st to the station which is now 15 mph. It was all part of the original plan to get trip time to harrisburg down to 80 minutes. They've been doing design work for the interlockings (arra money I believe).