The Climate and SEPTA

[zebrasepta]

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/2 ... nk_it.html

Wetter. Warmer. Wilder.

That long-term weather forecast for the Philadelphia region means trouble for SEPTA, especially on its railroad, subway, and trolley routes.

A federal report released this month, which used SEPTA as a case study for the nation's transit systems, predicts that average temperatures in Philadelphia will rise by 3 to 6 degrees by 2050, with greater annual rainfall and more frequent "heavy precipitation events."

That means SEPTA can expect more flooding, sagging rail-power lines, mudslides, toppled trees, and washed-out rail beds.

Already, agency officials are fighting back against climate change, elevating equipment, adding subway pumps, buttressing hillsides, and adding backup power and control systems.

[bikentransit]

Article failed to mention that SEPTA's incompetence was the cause of the damaged railcars left in Trenton after failing to heed warnings to move to higher ground.

[TrainPhotos]

SEPTA may be fighting the effects of climate change on its system, but I feel that this may be a golden "field of dreams" opportunity for the agency to become a weapon against climate change. Vastly expand the system, and create headways and schedules that make owning an using an automobile for commuting look foolish.

A nerd can dream, right?

[JeffK]

A nerd can dream, right?

It was, uh, "interesting" to see the comments section filled with screeds from self-described "experts" who rely on AM talk radio for their scientific information. The gist seemed to be "climate change isn't real so SEPTA doesn't have to spend any money!"

Perhaps the article's title should have been something like "SEPTA works to strengthen infrastructure against bad weather". That might have gone down better, especially b/c a lot of the commenters apparently believe climate and weather are the same thing ....

[TrainPhotos]

A nerd can dream, right?

It was, uh, "interesting" to see the comments section filled with screeds from self-described "experts" who rely on AM talk radio for their scientific information. The gist seemed to be "climate change isn't real so SEPTA doesn't have to spend any money!"

Perhaps the article's title should have been something like "SEPTA works to strengthen infrastructure against bad weather". That might have gone down better, especially b/c a lot of the commenters apparently believe climate and weather are the same thing ....

Oy vey. People will always have something to complain about, that is one certainty. I'd rather hear complaints about money than complaints about a line being abandoned due to sea level rise and the resulting changes in how fast and where water drains. Everything here was built with the idea that sea level was static. The delaware being tidal in the immediate metro area doesn't help matters either.

[Wingnut]

I read that article and the comments too. Some of them just had me shaking my head...

The article focused heavily on the Norristown Line which is prone to flooding problems after heavy downpours. Early indications are that we're heading for more frequent heavy downpours and service disruptions. But at least the entire line is above the Art Museum dam and won't be impacted by sea level rise...in our lifetime anyway. In the nearer term, I'm more worried about the Hudson Line for that. But locally the Airport Line may be at risk as it runs near tidal marshes.

[TrainPhotos]

I read that article and the comments too. Some of them just had me shaking my head...

The article focused heavily on the Norristown Line which is prone to flooding problems after heavy downpours. Early indications are that we're heading for more frequent heavy downpours and service disruptions. But at least the entire line is above the Art Museum dam and won't be impacted by sea level rise...in our lifetime anyway. In the nearer term, I'm more worried about the Hudson Line for that. But locally the Airport Line may be at risk as it runs near tidal marshes.

When you really think about it enough, all the rail lines, light rail, highways that buses run on, elevation and drainage numbers and sea level rise and the chance of more "sandy-type" storms, you begin to realize that we are in extremely deep doodoo. We can build our way out of the doodoo, but that takes money and more critically, it takes public & political will.

[MACTRAXX]

It was, uh, "interesting" to see the comments section filled with screeds from self-described "experts" who rely on AM talk radio for their scientific information. The gist seemed to be "climate change isn't real so SEPTA doesn't have to spend any money!"

Perhaps the article's title should have been something like "SEPTA works to strengthen infrastructure against bad weather". That might have gone down better, especially b/c a lot of the commenters apparently believe climate and weather are the same thing ....

Jeff and Everyone: This subject is a prime example why I do not take part in discussions like this...This type of
phenomenon is something that has developed along with the Internet to comment on virtually any news story
just seems to me bring out the "lunatic fringes" that inhabit commenting on these web pages...

Being able to comment under a anonymous screen name without virtually any rules or regulations can and does
bring out the "crazies" in society that would think twice if there was any chance of repercussions for inflammatory
comments or if these "pundits" were dealing with other people on a personal or "face to face" basis...

I am in absolute agreement that the title of this article could have been worded in a way to show how SEPTA
is trying to protect its infrastructure in vulnerable places that are prone to problems that are weather related
and keeping those toxic terms "climate change" out of the title of this article may have kept a lot of these self
proclaimed "experts" from getting involved in the fray about this subject...

MACTRAXX

[JeffK]

Spot on, MACTRAXX. It's almost as if the low-information types have some kind of private network to alert them when anything even tangentially related to science or religion is posted.

During the 2012 election a satire site (Weekly World News, IIRC) put out bait in the form of outrageous stories about Obama and Romney, things like "Obamas plan retirement community on the Moon" and "Romney buys Disneyland; Goofy to be laid off in cost-saving move", etc. Within hours they were descended on by hordes of snarling, yelping fools who thought the stories were real.

To get somewhat back on topic, my own experiences have been that the (ex-) R6 line and 102 trolley are among the most flood-prone routes, so this story is good news. Also the NHSL/P&W has had a lot of problems at and near the Bryn Mawr station. SEPTA did a significant amount of work to stabilize several embankments; so far those efforts appear successful.

[sammy2009]

Today i was going to the King Of Prussia mall and we are on 76 West and im just looking out the window and as i look over i see the Norristown Line...we are outside the city on 76...and i see the houses and im thinking to myself " I Had no idea the tracks and houses was so close to the river and that is the problem". Glad SEPTA is getting money to get somethings with that prevention but the tracks and houses are very close to the river...i never knew it was that closed. I was always under the impression that the line was a bit farther away but still got flooded , now i see its so easy for the tracks and infrastructure to get HIT with a easy flood. And i dont see how those residents do it every hurricane season.

[TrainPhotos]

Today i was going to the King Of Prussia mall and we are on 76 West and im just looking out the window and as i look over i see the Norristown Line...we are outside the city on 76...and i see the houses and im thinking to myself " I Had no idea the tracks and houses was so close to the river and that is the problem". Glad SEPTA is getting money to get somethings with that prevention but the tracks and houses are very close to the river...i never knew it was that closed. I was always under the impression that the line was a bit farther away but still got flooded , now i see its so easy for the tracks and infrastructure to get HIT with a easy flood. And i dont see how those residents do it every hurricane season.

The tracks under 76 are well over a mile from the river, and much higher up than the river.

[SCB2525]

I'm sure he means 276 or 476 at which point the tracks are indeed spitting distance to the river. Actually, the Norristown line never crosses under 76; you may be talking about US 1. The tracks are indeed much higher than the river here, but the distance is only about 1/3 mi, not well over 1 mi.

[westernfalls]

Sammy2009's observations are reasonably accurate. From I-76 west, a mile or two outside the city, one can look across the river and see houses along the riverbank. Those houses are mostly in Philadelphia; the last few are in Whitemarsh Township. Regarding the frequent floods, those people are used to it. Some of the structures are on stilts and others have nothing of importance on their lower levels. In that area, the SEPTA Norristown branch is a bit uphill and not subject to flooding. The historical flooding problems begin at Miquon where SEPTA recently constructed facilities to turn back trains. Some of the signal housings there are on stilts, and some earthwork may help protect the immediate area. Conshohocken floods with regularity.

[sammy2009]

Sammy2009's observations are reasonably accurate. From I-76 west, a mile or two outside the city, one can look across the river and see houses along the riverbank. Those houses are mostly in Philadelphia; the last few are in Whitemarsh Township. Regarding the frequent floods, those people are used to it. Some of the structures are on stilts and others have nothing of importance on their lower levels. In that area, the SEPTA Norristown branch is a bit uphill and not subject to flooding. The historical flooding problems begin at Miquon where SEPTA recently constructed facilities to turn back trains. Some of the signal housings there are on stilts, and some earthwork may help protect the immediate area. Conshohocken floods with regularity.

Correct, that is the area i was speaking of. Thanks. I notice the tracks did seem to have a uphill design to them. I just couldn't help to think that its close enough to get flooded occasionally.

[TrainPhotos]

This is what i was seeing "i-76 west.... norristown line".

http://prntscr.com/6mq4rm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you were referring to the norristown rrd line, yes that's near the river, but that spot isnt near KoP... That is much farther west. It would have been helpful if your point of reference could have been more clear, such as "east of the turnpike interchange".

In any case....... there is plenty of room to build whatever they need to in that area, be it along the river or simply along the right of way.