Railroad Forums 

  • NHSL Extension Meetings / Workshops Announced

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

 #1331152  by JeffK
 
SCB2525 wrote:I think having an actual transfer point at Radnor with a reduced transfer fare would help truly tap the potential of this extension.
I agree completely. There've been several past proposals to move the two stations to a common point; some people have even asked for a Park & Ride lot accessible from the Blue Route. But every time the idea was floated the NIMBYs came out in droves (or however NIMBYs gather) so nothing happened.
 #1331328  by JeffK
 
SCB2525 wrote:Do the latest proposals at least still have a wye with service also between NTC and KOP?
IIRC all plans have included a wye for tripper service.
 #1359785  by JeffersonLeeEng
 
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2015/1 ... ine-to-kop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No real progress nor actual routing decided as of yet. Just another study proclaiming what a great boost to the local economy if this were to ever see fruition within our lifetimes.

<sarcasm> Yay! Go team! </sarcasm>

Fair use quote...
Analyzing Benefits Of Extending Norristown High Speed Line To KOP
December 3, 2015 10:49 AM By Jim Melwert

KING OF PRUSSIA, Pa. (CBS) – A new analysis, released today by the Economy League of Greater Philadelphia, takes a look at potential benefits of extending the Norristown High Speed line to King of Prussia.

The King of Prussia rail project is still years from being a reality, but this analysis looks at a variety of potential benefits [...]
 #1359827  by JeffK
 
I've been to at least one session of each workshop since the series started. It's increasingly frustrating to see such an important project descend into yet another case of "paralysis by analysis". E.g. the DeKalb Pike routing is supposedly off the table so far as both the Township and nearly all attendees are concerned but it's still being presented as a viable alternative. That simply attracts opposition from low-information types, and a lot of time is wasted addressing arguments against an option that has an epsilon chance of being built in any case. At a higher level, the proposed timelines are ridiculously extended versus comparable systems that have already been proposed, designed, and built elsewhere. Right now even if everything goes forward as planned cars won't run until somewhere in the mid-2020s! That delay has caused developers to give up plans for TOD (such as the now dead in-mall station) and proceed with loads of car-centric layouts like those taking shape at the new Village site. A number of us have raised these issues at the workshops repeatedly but we've gotten nowhere.

At the risk of (yet again) sounding cynical, I'm becoming more and more convinced that, as necessary as the extension is, by the time it emerges from the meat-grinder it will be way too little and far too late.
 #1359854  by bikentransit
 
NHSL extension will suffer the same fate of every other proposed rail project in SEPTIC land. Newtown died at the drawing board because of NIMBYism...diesel or electric couldn't please anyone. Reading was a fiasco from the start with that wasteful SVM study, and despite 422 being a daily parking lot, is DOA as well. West Chester/Wawa isn't going anywhere, despite being "green lighted" since the 1990s because of SEPTIC's gargantuan stadium...er, station at Wawa that's too costly to build. And SEPTIC gave up any hope of a true intercity revival of Bethlehem when they gave up the ROW to bikers a few years ago.

There will never be any sensible growth of rail service in SE PA. He's dead Jim.

Image
 #1368214  by JeffK
 
I wonder where all of those people* were when the meetings were held. The few opponents who did bother to show up were generally treated with respect and their concerns about noise, crime, etc. were addressed. At least at the meetings I attended, that sort of personal interaction did a lot to correct many misconceptions.

Now a bunch of low-information types (many not even from the area, judging by their addresses) are going off on their own to build an echo chamber of fear and misunderstanding. I've suggested to the Rail Coalition that maybe it's time for some more-focused outreach before the screamers and squawkers further bollix even the modicum of progress made so far.

* well, mammals at least (maybe) ...
 #1368440  by bikentransit
 
Don't look now but the anti-rail camp is mobilizing a front in Upper Merion. They've already got a Facebook page and a petition circulating, and are beating their elected officials over this. Who is supporting the project right now? Has the mall agreed to have the line run on their property? If not, it's as good as dead.
 #1369104  by JeffersonLeeEng
 
A schedule update for public outreach on the KOP Rail has been sent out via e-mail to subscribers who requested for information via the website and it looks like there is to be some further session meetings with the public on a Recommended Locally Preferred Alternative sometime next month (March 2016).

A graphical representation of the current Project Schedule is here... http://www.kingofprussiarail.com/docs/K ... hedule.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Considering that this may not be shovel-ready for another 3+ years just adds fuel to the fire for the NIMBYs.

And who knows if Kravco/Simon Properties would even have room for a station stop anywhere within its environs... :(
 #1369186  by JeffK
 
JeffersonLeeEng wrote:And who knows if Kravco/Simon Properties would even have room for a station stop anywhere within its environs...
At one point, there was to be an in-mall stop associated with the connector between the former Plaza and Court. That option is now lost, because postponing the connector project for years in the absence of an LPA (let alone actual rails) was simply not going to happen.

Unfortunately a similar situation's also come to pass regarding the extension's outer-end spur options. Work on the Village is nearing completion and from what I can see essentially no thought was given to making it transit-accessible. It's the same calculus on the developers' part - why build for something that's a decade-off "IF"? The only good to come out of it is that the Rail Coalition is now strongly behind the First Avenue alternative because its redesign is also still in the planning stage, allowing some possibility of coordination ... but again, IF.
 #1369236  by bikentransit
 
Why not just run a dedicated shuttle bus from NTC to the Mall? If the train can't go into the mall itself with door-to-door service, why not the bus? Besides, does this really do anything to alleviate problems on the Schuylkill? Maybe the NIMBYs are right??
 #1369250  by roadmaster
 
i think the extension was dead the minute the elevated over dekalb alternative was presented and many in the public chastized it saying it would turn the pike into another kensington ave.

the 123 will be the only service between the two points in my lifetime.
 #1369284  by trackwelder
 
roadmaster wrote:i think the extension was dead the minute the elevated over dekalb alternative was presented and many in the public chastized it saying it would turn the pike into another kensington ave.

the 123 will be the only service between the two points in my lifetime.

maybe that's why it was presented.
 #1369297  by MichaelBug
 
bikentransit wrote:Why not just run a dedicated shuttle bus from NTC to the Mall? If the train can't go into the mall itself with door-to-door service, why not the bus? Besides, does this really do anything to alleviate problems on the Schuylkill? Maybe the NIMBYs are right??
SEPTA already has the Route 99 bus between NTC & the KoP Mall. However, connections between Regional Rail & the 99 (& all bus routes out of NTC, for that matter) can be very problematic, especially on weekends. At one time back in the late 1980's, the 99 had express trips from NTC (the terminal may actually still have been at Main & Swede back then) that ran nonstop via the Dannehower Bridge & straight down DeKalb Pike to the mall. Maybe it's time to look into doing so again?