New Siemens Locomotives - Qty 13+5

[Jersey_Mike]

If "ifs" and "buts" were cherries and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. Of course new locomotives are more reliable...but where do you draw the line? A new fleet ever 15 years? 10 years? 5 years? If the AEM's need an overhaul or a rebuild then rebuild them. NJT IS NOT A ROLE MODEL. I believe their excuse was it only cost a "slightly" more to buy new ALP-46s as opposed to rebuild the 44's. Have you seen the hoops SEPTA will jump through to save just five or six figures?

SEPTA should look to the used market (I know some 44Ms sitting around doing nothing) or to get its own stuff rebuilt. The Sweeds have not scrapped ANY of their Rc series and they go back to 1968.

[bikentransit]

Gee is it possible that SEPTA doesn't properly maintain things so they can intentionally throw them out and spend more money or stop providing services? Naaaaah, they'd never do that
(think PCCs/North Philly trolley system; think RDCs on diesel routes now popping daisies; think absence of trackless trolleys at Southern district)

Funny how places like Moscow and Sweden still have 40+ year old electric equipment in service and can get parts for them. But SEPTA just puts the hand out and thinks that mommy and daddy taxpayer will front the cost for new stuff it doesn't need.

[Push&Pull Master]

Gee is it possible that SEPTA doesn't properly maintain things so they can intentionally throw them out and spend more money or stop providing services? Naaaaah, they'd never do that
(think PCCs/North Philly trolley system; think RDCs on diesel routes now popping daisies; think absence of trackless trolleys at Southern district)

Funny how places like Moscow and Sweden still have 40+ year old electric equipment in service and can get parts for them. But SEPTA just puts the hand out and thinks that mommy and daddy taxpayer will front the cost for new stuff it doesn't need.

Every other railroad that had AEM7s got rid of them because it reached the end of their lifespan and now Septa's need to be replaced because they're old. There aren't many if not any parts available. It's not like Septa has had an endless sum of money to spend from. With that logic we shouldn't replace the trolleys or the Silverliner 4s either. You can't use the PRR as an example because they didn't have tons of money to replace their aging vehicles. Honestly, I don't think anyone will be upset once new locomotives are in service that don't break half the time.

[CComMack]

Gee is it possible that SEPTA doesn't properly maintain things

Yup!

so they can intentionally throw them out and spend more money or stop providing services?

WRONG!

SEPTA could probably have gotten another 5-15 years out of their AEM-7s if they had had the money to overhaul them circa 2000. They didn't. So instead, they did the only thing they could do: keep running them, patched with duct tape and baling wire, and pray for a miracle. The miracle didn't come until last year, too late to extend the life of the AEM-7s. But with one factory already churning out NEC-capable electric locos in Sacramento, and another that could easily turn out a few more in La Pocatiere, replacing the push/pull loco fleet, with expansion, is a cost-effective choice.

But SEPTA just puts the hand out and thinks that mommy and daddy taxpayer will front the cost

You seem to not know how transit gets funded in the United States. I have some terrible news for you.

for new stuff it doesn't need.

I think at this point, the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim that SEPTA doesn't need a solution to its electric loco shortage.

The SEPTA AEM-7's were some of the last manufactured in the late 1980's. Electric locomotives should have a service life of 30-40 years.

SEPTA's AEM-7s are about to turn 28, and in all probability some or all of the AEM-7s will turn 30 while in SEPTA revenue service. (I know, it doesn't seem like it's been that long.) I'd much prefer to see SEPTA get the full 40-year value out of them, but 30 isn't terrible. It sure as heck isn't worthy of a comparison to NJT!

[CNJGeep]

(I know some 44Ms sitting around doing nothing)

Cool, glad to hear it. Where are these 44Ms of which you speak? They wouldn't happen to be the NJT ones which are tied up in a lease for another seven years, would they?

[R36 Combine Coach]

(I know some 44Ms sitting around doing nothing)

Cool, glad to hear it. Where are these 44Ms of which you speak? They wouldn't happen to be the NJT ones which are tied up in a lease for another seven years, would they?

Lackawanna Cutoff in Stanhope.

[sammy2009]

(I know some 44Ms sitting around doing nothing)

Cool, glad to hear it. Where are these 44Ms of which you speak? They wouldn't happen to be the NJT ones which are tied up in a lease for another seven years, would they?

Lackawanna Cutoff in Stanhope.

Those things are done, and sitting and looking creepy.

[R3 Passenger]

Although not political in nature, this discussion is starting to read like a political debate. There are so many opinions flying around that the truth of what is actually needed by SEPTA is getting warped. I'm done here.

[Fan Railer]

Although not political in nature, this discussion is starting to read like a political debate. There are so many opinions flying around that the truth of what is actually needed by SEPTA is getting warped. I'm done here.

Nah, it's just people who don't know what they're talking about *coughcough*

[Clearfield]

Fortunately, SEPTA doesn't do its long term or strategic planning based on the posts on this board.

The SEPTA imagined by (all of) the posters here is imaginary and more dysfunctional than the real SEPTA.

[CNJGeep]

(I know some 44Ms sitting around doing nothing)

Cool, glad to hear it. Where are these 44Ms of which you speak? They wouldn't happen to be the NJT ones which are tied up in a lease for another seven years, would they?

Lackawanna Cutoff in Stanhope.

I know where they are. The point of my post was to point out that they're tied up in red tape until 2021 at the earliest. The ALP44Os-and Comet IIIs-will be released next year.

[the sarge]

Although not political in nature, this discussion is starting to read like a political debate. There are so many opinions flying around that the truth of what is actually needed by SEPTA is getting warped. I'm done here.

It's what happens on a public forum. Just add to the insanity with something like:

SEPTA should aquire Amtrak's HHP-8's. They are only 15 years old, why not? They should last 40 years, no "ifs" "ands" or "buts" Because when it comes to an electric locomotive, it does not matter if they are lemons, how they were used, or how they were maintained gosh darn it! SEPTA could get another easy 25 years out of them. From what I hear, they can be had for real cheap.

Then do not forget to add "But the GG1's lasted 50 years!" Because that statement applies to AlL electric locomotive ever manufactured. I didn't know about the RC's still running so I guess you could add "Sweden" to the statement. But, do not forget that you cannot ever mention NJT though.

Then, please do not forget to include at least three statements that really back up your idea/opinion like: SEPTA suck's, always begging for money, bus company running a railroad, long lonely walks at night in the rain, standing on a corner freezing my nads off, can't pee on the train (legally), sleeping beauties, cherries and nuts , etc etc...

Lastly, if you want to end it all, just yell "Newtown" "West Chester" and soon to be added to the list, "Wawa!"

[Jersey_Mike]

I know someone who works in Metro North capitol planning and when I suggest that certain projects are wasteful he flat out tells me that "if you have the money, you spend the money because you CAN spend the money". I don't agree with that and if public entities that try to save money get their budgets cut then we need to fix our budgeting process.

The other reason SEPTA is looking for new locomotives is because they have Bi-level envy. The AEM's don't have the power to pull bi-level trainsets. Why does SEPTA need bi-levels? Because passengers complain about 3-2 seating. With record ridership SEPTA needs to tell the complainers that if they don't like it they can go drive. Again it comes down to money. If SEPTA is having funding issues why are they spending on luxury items like 2-2 seating? Expansion of service should be their first priority.

[CComMack]

Expanding the push-pull fleet makes sense because it maximizes seats per foot of yard track. The EMUs are filling Powelton, Roberts, Wayne Electric, Media, and now Chestnut Hill East to the brim. The one yard with slack, and also the one yard most easily expanded, is Frazer Yard, home of the push/pull fleet. Even with the locos themselves providing no seats, going bilevel is more space-efficient than converting entirely to EMUs. To get the same bang for the buck, SEPTA would have to bring forward a lot of yard construction/reactivation projects (Barracks Yard, West Yard) that it can leave to out-years if it purchases bilevels.

[sammy2009]

Expanding the push-pull fleet makes sense because it maximizes seats per foot of yard track. The EMUs are filling Powelton, Roberts, Wayne Electric, Media, and now Chestnut Hill East to the brim. The one yard with slack, and also the one yard most easily expanded, is Frazer Yard, home of the push/pull fleet. Even with the locos themselves providing no seats, going bilevel is more space-efficient than converting entirely to EMUs. To get the same bang for the buck, SEPTA would have to bring forward a lot of yard construction/reactivation projects (Barracks Yard, West Yard) that it can leave to out-years if it purchases bilevels.

Agreed. Valid points. I think the only option they have is going up MLV's is the way to go. How much money would it cost to expand the current platforms , + the ones that are already low level and that need to be replaced with high level boarding. ?.....The new locomotives or currents and planned MLV's may not be able to platform but they can hold alot of people. This is currently a problem currently. Rode a five car set of silverliner 4's on the Trenton Line and got off at Bridesburg and i had to walk to the next car just because of the platform already. If SEPTA can add more space at Frazer for a few $$$$ bucks then i don't see the problem in doing that. More space for more locos, bilevels, elec lolcos, and emus.